Where Have All The Keepers Gone?

By: agiamba | November 11th, 2009

Robert Enke’s death is a tragic one, without a doubt. In no way is the post meant to malign him, but I barely had heard of him, and yet he was likely to be named Germany’s #1 for the World Cup coming ahead. Not someone legendary like Kahn or Lehmann. So it provoked a question: Where have all the great keepers gone?

There have been several postings on various English-language blogsites over the last few years lamenting the absence of elite Italian goalkeepers, aside from Buffon. Usually, they would pop up during international breaks (like now) and when Buffon was injured. They were right; Amelia doesn’t cut it, Marchetti might, but has a long way to go. Young promising keepers like Viviano and Consigli have even farther to go, and have not really impressed this season, their first in Serie A.

I still think he deserved the Ballon d’Or over Canna…

For those of you more recent followers of Serie A, we used to have class throughout. Look at Euro 2000- even without Buffon, we had Toldo as a brick wall, and Abbiati as a capable young backup. In the last 20 years, we’ve had times where Buffon, Peruzzi, Toldo, all could easily star for the national team. Before that, there were players like Pagiluca, Tacconi, Marchegiani, Zenga, etc. Can any current player (other than Buffon) reach those levels? For Juventus, you can count the amount of starting keepers on your hand over the last 35 years or so, which is obscene. Zoff, Tacconi, Peruzzi, Van der Sar, and Buffon. That’s an extreme case though, in that we have always made great keepers a priority, unlike Milan.

These blogs I’ve read tended to attribute the cause, not necessarily blame the issue, to the influx of foreign keepers in Serie A. There have been some great ones, and some who didn’t entirely work out- ie Jens Lehmann and Edwin Van der Sar. The tragic death of Enke really hit it home for me- no nation is producing the keepers like they used to. This isn’t an Italian problem, nor a problem with foreigners, it’s something else, and honestly I have no idea what it is.

Look at England- Terrible. Germany? Both the national team and Bayern have been unable to replace Kahn. France? Coupet and Barthez were good, not sure if they were elite, but anyone who watched the comedy of errors called Marseille 5-5 Lyon between the two French keepers, Mandanda and Lloris, well, they are not as good as the older ones. Some have mentioned Brazil is finally producing great keepers, but I don’t think that holds. Aside from Julio Cesar, I’m not that impressed. Doni is not very good, and you can ask Romanistas that, and Rubinho sucks even more. Gomes? Please. Spain is the only exception to the rule, but they are producing an outstanding group of players (related to the shift to democracy, perhaps?) in general, and there’s no doubt Reina and Casillas, despite occasional papere are world class. Not sure about Almunia or Valdes, but they count in the “good” category that other nations only seem to be able to produce. Peter Cech? Average, especially in current form. Shay Given is good, but he’s never proven himself at the top level due to his club/nationality.

smechsavelarge

So what’s the problem? I have no idea, as I said before. Maybe an unwillingness to give a young keeper a full run out in the team? Buffon and Casillas both played in the European elite at a very young age. Maybe it’s a priority of other positions in academies, related to the poaching of young players? It’s a good question for debate in an otherwise boring week. What do you think about the dearth of world-class keepers right now?

Some Related Juventus Posts:

Category: Team News

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Cece

Really?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
agiamba

As a league keeper, Taffarel never did it for me.
CeCe

Daniel said it all. This article is too Euro-focused. There's plenty of great goalkeepers playing in South America (and have been for years.) To say that Brazil finally has a good keeper is short-sighted, and not something I would expect from an Italian fan (Taffarel's accomplishments speak for themselves.)
I also want to point out, that France and England's goalkeepers woes really aren't surprising. It's not like France is known for producing incredible keepers (like you mentioned, they've pretty much just had competent ones), and as far as England goes, even the talented Seaman let Ronaldinho embarrass him in 2002.
Tomek

You forgot Poland as a goalkeeping nation, that's the only position were steadily producing good footballers.

Though I forgive you, I know were an obscure nation :P
Vinod

Alessio, long story short - I grew up in the Middle East, moved to India, and then came here.

And yeah, about Jozy, this isn't the first time I'm hearing that about him in that context. I've actually heard some people at a sports bar discussing what a waste it is to see a great athlete like him not playing American football. Pity there are so many people who think like that, its frightening to imagine how good the US would really be if soccer was given as much importance as football. But in every teen movie, its always the football players who link up with the hot cheerleaders. Hard to get hormone-crazy kids to pick soccer when that's what they see on TV... :D
Jorid

Vinod: You hit the nail right on the head. Unless we're talking about some places like Florida or Texas where I've heard soccer season is year round, really athletic kids pick football just because it's "the more popular sport" to play. Ale, I think another GREAT example like Jozy is also The Gooch. He may not be a world class defender, but physically he's an absolute tank.
Elaine

On the subject of American keepers, I think one of the reasons we have so many good ones but not *great* ones is we don't have enough supporting players to give them the chance at a young age to compete at the levels the great ones have. I love that they are infiltrating the EPL, that is progress. But when you look at the shots they have to stop in the MLS and even at an international level compared to their peers in other countries, they are just not being challenged.

As a Milanista, I would like to challenge the Dida comments and ask that they be stricken from the record. For one thing, I have a 3rd grade daughter who plays in goal, and she makes Dida look a fool. (And she's not that good.) For the other, a great keeper is one who both gains and sustains great form. (When is Abbiati coming back?)

Buffon is the best of the best, and I am so glad my kids look up to him as such.
ooBia

off topic: Marchisio is back. I am sooo happy :)
agiamba

Haha that's a whoooole nother topic Vinod, but you're exactly right. One big problem is that American football and soccer are the same seasons in middle school slash high school so while a lot of kids grow up playing both, they have to make a choice. And obviously American football has way more sway in general. That's one thing people have said about Jozy Altidore, he's kind of a win for soccer in that with his build he easily could be playing football or basketball.

Where are you from, by the way?
Vinod

Speaking as an outsider here (I've been in the US for about a year and half only), the problem I see is that most American kids who are agile and have great reflexes / jumps, and hence could make good keepers, tend to pick American football or basketball. I guess its just the way your media portrays football that makes it so much more appealing to kids (and their parents) than soccer.

The US does not lack superb athletes, at any level or age group. But if the media doesn't give soccer enough popularity, and continues to portray it largely as a women's sport in the youth level, I don't see anything changing any time soon.
agiamba

Yeah the US has produced good keepers ndcolin...probably just doesn't get the recognition because it's never produced a "great" one.
ndcolin

believe it or not, the US might be one of the top 5 'keeper producing countries of the last ten years. two years ago 1/4 of the starting 'keepers in the EPL were american
Mo

How's this for a coincidence, both Buffon and Casillias are playing their 100th CAP today!!!
Neil

To summarize my point, I don't think the quality of goalkeeping has gone down, as least not dramatically. There will always be cycles where there are a few more greats or a few less greats.

But the way people evauluate keepers has changed. In the past you didn't have to be perfect every match, but today you pretty much have to or else the club will looking to get someone else between the posts.
Neil

Alessio, I think keepers these days are judged by their mistakes rather than by their overall contriubtions. It seems to be the prevailing trend in football.

As Pat points out, the 5-5 draw featuring Mandanda and Lloris was only one match. And yes, Sirigu has made mistakes but overall he's a very promising young keeper.

You know which keepers were also involved in high scoring matches and made colossal mistakes? Buffon, Kahn, and all the old "greats." The difference is that 10-20 years ago clubs would view these mistakes and bad games as the exception and give the keepers time to develop if young or to recover their top form.

These days, if a keeper makes mistakes he's instantly made a scapegoat, made out to be a liability, and the club looks for other long term goalkeeping solutions. So you have keepers just as good as past years never getting a chance to settle and establish themselves in the long run. As soon keepers today have a bad game another keeper who has never let the club down is being lined up to replace him.

Many clubs now have a revolving door of keepers because you're only as good as your last game. The second you make a blunder, you're ripped by club and media as not being world class even if you have a good record otherwise.
gaetano

George I didn't think about that, but I think they may bring back the 4312 when marchisio is fit. This will mean iaquinta and co will have to step up. Personally I like the fluidity to the game when fielding a 4231 and we manage to score a lot more. Quick question: how many games last season resulted in a scoreline of 5 goals for us? Maybe a moot point but our guys played a phenemonal game against sampdorria. When our guys are fit we can beat everyone including barca. I m sure ciro will figure it out depending on our opponents. Although,just the idea of del piero diego and giovinco playing is mouthwatering!
georg

most likely camoranesi will granted some well deserved rest after the internationals,... would this mean ferrara will field all wel rested DIEGO DEL PIERO and GIOVINCO behind a lone striker??? this thought only causes me dazzling exitements of overjoy, i won't be able to sleep normal till next week!

lets hope all of the juvewarriors returns healthy!
gaetano

Great. melo recovers to possibly face England while robinho stays. Increasing the likelihood of injury and thus making life difficult for us. I get it, one must play in a match like this but I'm a bit concerned for all of our players who will be playing today. If we want to win the scudetto we will need fit players.
Bassam

I believe that you have to take in retrospect the defense that this keeper has. Casillas might make a mistake every know and then, but if you see how many times his goal gets attacked, you wouldn't blame him. The number of saves casillas makes during one match might be equal to the number of saves for Buffon in 5 games, maybe more. Buffon is more commanding in the air, but casillas is probably a better shot stopper.

For spain, Almunia and Valdez are not even in my top list. The likes of Asenjo and Palop (palop is old) are better than those of Valdez and Almunia IMO.

Hala Madrid :D
agiamba

Jose I think you make some good points, and Buffon is probably the greatest keeper of all time. Though some of the other keepers that make mistakes, like Casillas, I still think are world class. Gigi is just legendary. :)
Daniel

holy mamma, check this news out:
http://www.juventus.com/site/e...
first awesome thing - there's a Ferrara on the squad!
second strange, but also awesome - Molinaro got a good cross, finally!
Jose

I think the problem is that we are trying to compare Buffon to every other keeper, as a Juventino and Italy fan he is the standard bearer. Buffon is just beyond believe, look at all those saves on the videos that Alessio posted, he is, I believe the best keeper the world has seen.

I can almost guarantee that if Buffon was not around we will think that Casillas and Reina are great, along with Julio Cesar and maybe even Victor Valdes, put Gomes in there with Cech and we have a fair number of good keepers.

We are just lucky to be able to see an exceptional player week in and week out. He brings the consistency that Alessio talks about to a whole new level.

So, here is my question: Is it that there are no great keepers anymore? or that Buffon just outshines everyone else so much that makes great keepers look like second rate goalies?. Any thoughts?
Nnahoj

Firezen, the Eredivisie was also a lot better back in van der Sar's day. So I would say that van der Sar's record is still more impressive all factors considered.

Gomes is just not world class mate. He can be good, but that's it. Even when at PSV I've seen him with some howlers. Not always costly because PSV had without a doubt the best attack in the Eredevisie and would just score to make up for any errors at the back.
Firezen

@alessio

Continuing with the Gomes discussion. 2-3 seasons of greatness? I consider dragging PSV's ass all the way to the semi-finals, and our consistent European campagins where we would qualify from our group stages as pretty great.

And okay fine, Gomes' final season saw PSV go to UEFA cup instead, but he did once again show us heroics game after game (Spurs game in particular). I think Gome's greatness has shown since his 2nd season all the way until his last season for PSV. That's 3 seasons right there.

And hey man, Gomes even got the 2nd longest clean sheet streak in Eredivisie, beating van der Sar's one (when you can argue, van der Sar's Ajax team was much much superior to the PSV team Gomes was in).

Also, how many games of Gomes have you watched?
Jovan

I'm not sure I agree with everything said here. Bartez was probably the most blunder-prone keeper I've ever seen appear in a world champion contender national team and the 23 year old Lloris could easily become a better version of him if he properly develops in the next 2 or 3 years.

Also, I don't see how Cech is average. He might not be in the best of form but he had some brilliant seasons. Also, it's hard to tell right now considering he has the 5 story high brick wall that is Chelsea in front of him. Dida was brilliant for a while, he tends to make idiotic third-grader mistakes but makes up each one with a few heroic saves (I'm a Milanista so I'm grasping at straws haha).

It does seem that there are less near-omnipotent oldschool keepers nowadays (I sound like I'm 70 but it is what it is) but could it have something to do with the fact that FIFA and UEFA keep making the balls faster and more unpredictable with each issue? Maybe it's just a sort of statistical error which will soon be corrected by Providence? I don't know.

P.S. Peter Schmeichel is probably my all-time favorite keeper.
agiamba

He's also had some colossal fuckups Nnahoj. I'm still hoping for Marchetti to move to a big club.
Christopher

Anyone catch any of Germany's U21 games in the euro tourney? That young guy Manuel Neuer was (is) insanely good. It will be interesting to see if he takes over Enke's spot.
Zsedo

My opinion is that there are fewer WORLD-CLASS (as you would put it) keepers, but more very good ones. For starters Frey (which I would pick infront of Lloris any day), Akinfeev and Kameni etc.
Nnahoj

Anthony, currently I think Palermo's keeper, Salvatore Sirigu, is the best young keeper in Italy and he shows the kind of promise you speak of. He's had a few MOTM performances in his short career thus far. Fingers crossed for him.
agiamba

It's funny Anthony sometimes I think, could Manninger be world class? Maybe not, but he could be very good. I think he's probably as good as Almunia or Valdes, reliable but doesn't usually make supersaves. I think he could start for any team in Serie A except Juve and Inter, sometimes I feel bad that he's just our bench keeper, but better him than the Grim Keeper!!
Anthony

Definitely agree with your definition of a world class keeper, Alessio. There are without a doubt much fewer of them these days (which makes Gigi all the more valuable).

And I too have wondered why no young keepers have really took the spotlight. There should be at least 1 in Italy (and every league actually) to show the same ability the young Gigi showed. Someone who, despite his age, shows enough natural ability to earn a starting spot on a team in Serie A and actually put in man of the match performances. Not all the time, but enough times. Maybe with some luck we'll get some late bloomers in a few years.
rosay

anyway who caress right now bout keepers cause buffon is only 31 and still has at least 8-9 years left of playinnn, thats two(could be three) more world cups!!
rosay

wat bout Vito Mannone from arsenal. 21 year old who just took over the startin spot for Arsenal cause of injuries and such but even when the old keeper was back he still claims the numba one spot on the gunners, i think he recently got called to the u21 but hasnt played for them yet
alex w

the new balls are lighter and lighter, so in particular, a "knuckle ball" strike knuckles a whole lot more. take a look at cronaldo's free kicks. those wouldn't be nearly as effective with the balls from 10 years ago.
agiamba

I remember Cech complaining about that pre-Euro2008, Vercingetorix, but I don't remember that many long-distance goals being scored in the tournament.
Vercingetorix

rip Enke. I agree with Anthony that most clubs are putting their stock in experience (Manchester City is a great and recent example, Hart out Given in). I would like to think that the football is to blame. Remember the keepers from last summer's Euros? They said that the ball behaves unnaturally (which leads to more errors). I'm putting my stock into a two part reason: the fact that experienced keepers are valued higher than young guns and that ball manufacturers are producing footballs that make for exciting and explosive goals. We'll just have to wait and see what Buffon, Casillas and company say about next summer's ball....
roberto

Buffon reflects on Enke's passing and his own battle with depression.

"It was too strong a shock for me, so much that I did not want to read what happened. Those are terrible moments, you lose sight of yourself and there is absolutely nothing rational about it. You must not hesitate or feel guilty in asking for help and staying among people, with those who love you."
pat

hugo loris is a real good keeper you are way off to classify his skills in one match where he also made some fantastic saves the modern crop of french keepers is miles ahead of those in the past
mohd

it look like this is a bad week for the goalkeepers Cudicini is badly injured

http://www.football-italia.net...
mohd

well lets see talking about italy i don't think that we have problem back at the goal area for the next ten years because we have superman and we have very good young talents for e.g Viviano, Fiorillo and Surgi og palermo he is a good keeper and in a safe hand if zenga stay

about spain the have already four good keepers if you consider a goalkeeper how takes 6 goals in a match a "world class"

germany have marcos neuer as promishing young star and anyone how watched the last UEFA U-21 would agree

and about england seriesly i can't care less fuck them