What is wrong with Juventus? Dico Tutto

By: agiamba | October 19th, 2009

So some have had we’ve slumped into a bit of a crisis, but I think that word is overused and it’s definitely not a crisis, at least yet. Performances have not mirrored results- against Genoa and Fiorentina we played relatively well, but our inefficiency in front of goal doomed us to draws. Against Palermo, however, we played like crap and the 2-0 whooping was thoroughly deserved. So what is our way forward?

4-3-1-2: I really think this is the best formation for Juventus for the next several years. We’ve had some difficulties adjusting, and perhaps Diego is playing too deep as he suggested the other day, and he’s probably right. A new formation is not easy to adjust to, so that requires patience.
Ferrara: I have no doubts in Ferrara’s ability. Naturally, there were going to be bumps along the way and just like Diego and the 4-3-1-2, our great early start deceived us a little bit. His subs have been meh, but I think his formations have been pretty good and he’s shown his willingness to shift formation and players.
Our Forwards: None seem to be in great form, or capable of hitting easy goals, which is pretty essential. Some have suggested we need a major overhaul and we need to sell off Trez, Amauri, or even Iaquinta. I think that’s a bit drastic and we need tweaking. I think it’s a case of the grass being greener on the other side. Some pointed to other plays like Vucinic or Pato, but the fact is both have started the season badly, both have scored in one game thus far. We’re going to need to look at forwards in the future, but that’s when ADP and Trez start looking into retirement.

giovinco-gioca-livorno

So what is the problem with Juventus? Going along with above comments, I don’t think there’s fundamental problems. It’s naturally going to take time for Diego/Melo, Ferrara, and the 4-3-1-2 to settle in. We can judge the season in March or so…remember both Zidane and Platini took nearly a full season to really become effective.

For me, it’s simple: the forwards. Injuries and fatigue have taken a toll, but that’s something we have to be able to cope with, and I think for the most part, we have. We haven’t played brilliant for most of the season, but with the exception of the game against Fiorentina, we haven’t played badly, either. There’s been a fair amount of service to the forwards and they just have not been scoring enough. Yesterday, Iaquinta had a golden opportunity right in front of net and just fluffed it right at Frey. In another action, Grosso crossed a great low ball across the goal, a simple deflection would have almost guaranteed a goal yet neither could get there. The service has been “good enough,” we just need them to start capitalizing.

So what’s the solution? Giovinco. First, while the two “big men” up front can work, it’s not effective right now and we need to ditch that. For now, Giovinco must start up front. I’ve said in the past I think he’s best suited to be a trequartista, but I think he can definitely play as seconda punta effectively also. He doesn’t need to have a great goal ratio, as long as he gets a goal every 4-5 games, he’ll be putting in plenty of creativity and assists to everyone- prima puntas, but also midfielders and defenders who attack.

Some have belittled (sorry, it just works) his performances this season, which I think is totally off. His games have not been bad, they may not have been brilliant, but he’s been no worse than Diego, Grosso, Iaquinta or Amauri in several of their games, and I cannot understand why some of them remain yet he was quickly dropped. Ferrara was his coach in the Primavera, he knows Gio’s quality, I don’t know why he isn’t using it.

In Praise of Jovetic: Watching Fiorentina attack, particularly with great exchanges between Jovetic and Vargas made me jealous. Jovetic is the PERFECT example of why Giovinco needs to play, a lot. His first season he was extremely raw, and his performances were for the most part pretty poor. It took him until April last season to finally score for Fiorentina, but Prandelli persisted with him all those long months. He had 34 games last season, which is a very good amount. Now? He’s the toast of Europe, linked with moves to just about every big team in the Champion’s League. He’s replaced one of the Viola favorites in Adrian Mutu. Scored 2 goals against Liverpool, and has scored 3 goals in 6 games in Serie A thus far. All because Prandelli gave the kid a long run out in the team, a very long run out.

A lot of people criticized Jovetic for poor decision making and mediocre performances halfway through the season, and that’s understandable. 16-18 games is a lot to go without scoring, but it’s clear it was 100% worth it. It’s even harder to do that at Juventus than Fiorentina (particularly when Mutu was often injured) but Ferrara needs to man up and do it. It’s quite possibly the solution to our attack in the short-term, as I have no doubt Gio will have a positive impact, but it definitely could be what ensures Giovinco becomes a Juventus legend.

In the current state, I cannot see Giovinco staying and for his sake, he shouldn’t. He needs to go somewhere where he gets great confidence from the manager and is able to play often, preferably (like Jovetic) at a top club that competes in the league and Europe. Relegation-battling teams won’t be able to fully appreciate his quality.

Some Related Juventus Posts:

Category: Team News

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Sofia

alessio - thank you for giving giovinco the credit and recognition he so greatly deserves. i really hope that he gets more opportunities this season to prove his worth.
agiamba

I didn't say it'd be as simple as putting Gio on, the Jovetic post was about how it may take time for Gio to produce. But I do think it would have a fairly big impact, we have just looked far too static up top.

Remember all that heat I took about saying how I didn't like Brazilian footballers? (And South American ones in general) It didn't take long-
http://lastampa.it/sport/cmsSe...
Supposedly Ferrara is angry with Diego and Felipe Melo for ignoring his on-field instructions. With Diego, it appears he has been telling him to play more up front, which is odd because that's what Diego said he wanted to do. Felipe Melo's is obvious, you all remember Ferrara telling him not to be a dumbass with the ball near the goal, well, he hasn't listened and cost us points against Genoa, Palermo, and Bologna by losing the ball. Ferrara also told him to stop dribbling and play it simpler.

Ferrara disciplined them in training and is considering switching formations, partially to force Melo to play more as a mediano and Diego more as a trequartista. (That's where the 4-2-3-1 talk is coming from)
Ivo

Gentlemen, I wish it was that easy - put Gio in and he will save all.

Juventus has been a work in progress, and that work takes time.

One (or two) summers ago we started the new Juve with Ranieri (and the management) in Serie A and that wasn't too big of a failure - considering how shitty we played.
This summer we added creativity and solidity to our midfield, but we neglected our attack and defense.

Plus, Juventus has always been conservative in their approach to change, so that only adds to the time this will take.

There are plenty of things left to fix at Juve. A defense that is solid and that the keeper and midfield will trust.

An attack that is more fluid - Anelka and Drogba are two big men who everyone thought couldn't play together but look at them now. We need to change the way our strikers play (if they are teachable) or switch them out with a second striker or two big strikers all a new.

Finally, a great coach. I am not saying a new coach, just a great coach. If we want Ferrara to become this, we cannot fool ourselves that we will win the Scudetto this year. He is still learning who to sub in and out for christ sake. If we want titles at all cost, we would have gotten an experienced coach that knows how to lead a new team.

I have always, and always will believe in the organization that is Juventus. In the project as well. I have no patience, but it is to fans not to have any and to push the team every single game. I will eat my nails and tear my hair off until we raise the scudetto and the cl. Only because I know that will be the greatest moment of all time, as it always is.

FORZA JUVE!!!
agiamba

Amazing how bad they are in the Champion's League. This year, last year, under Mancini, it's in the clubs DNA even worse than us. What is it, 8 games without a win in the CL for them now?

We need 3 points tomorrow!!
Daniel

awesome, Inter is the last on their group ^^
Pablo

Wow... champions league is crazy.
josh

sorry for the typos guys, what i meant with 4-3-2-1 should be 4-3-1-2.
josh

4-3-2-1: imho, for this formation to work, we need 3 things:
1. our wingbacks need to be more offensive and give pressure from the flanks. This will draw out our opponents from center and give more space for Diego's creativity.
2. we need our midfield in the middle (tiago/poulsen/melo) to hold the ball and dictate the play. We lose the ball too much in the middle whenever they pass it forward.
3. ADP in front; we simply need him to draw out opponent's defenders, give some great assists; and score goals as well. Currently, neither amauri, trez, nor iaquinta can replace his role.

I don't think currently we have the right players for 4-3-2-1 formation, esp with ADP's injuries; and I think 4-2-3-1 will be more effective where we can play momo-melo to protect our defense; and giovinco-camo to give pressure from the flanks and give more space for Diego's creativity.
Pablo

The problem with Real Madrid players is, even if they could "probably" be cheap, their salary will be too much for us.

I agree Van der Vaart MIGHT be useful, but he is more an offensive player than an complete midfielder. And, I might be wrong here, he is injury prone; and if there is something we don't need is players with high salaries playing less than 15 games a season (except you ADP, you are cool :p).
tom

just read in the corriere dello sport...that ferrara is thinking about trying a 4-2-3-1 formation...
georg

pablo, i think v der vaart would be a good ,plausible, not to expensive solution, he's very creative and technical and now rotting on the bench with real i wouldn't mind if he joins juve, can be camoranesi's heir after he quits
Pablo

Quality player are not that common in january. If they are good, their teams won't let them go or will ask way too much money.

I don't think we really need more technically gifted players for this season, we just need to keep them healthy.
j

looks like we still need to buy more quality players during the january transfer window. our full backs are weak, we dont have enough creative players (as mention earlier by ned lowe, and where's nedved, secco?)giovinco needs to start, at least give him more games before deciding his fate. maybe the trez/amauri/iaq partnership with ADP/giovinco/diego may work. maybe trez, amauri and iaq cant play together, since they are quite similar to one another. and camoranesi should be one of the first names on the team sheet (unless we playing defensive), he brings so much more creativity to the team, and his final pass is usually great, the only thing drawback is that camo seems to tire during the late second half.
georg

agreed with ned love for most parts.

off topic
the goal.com preview predics a 4-0 voctory for juve.
that would be nice but higly unlikely i think. whatched them closely vs bayrn and bordeaux and believe me they're far from some pushovers
ned lowe

I feel that our major problem is shortage of technically-gifted players.We do not have sufficient numbers of players who are comfortable with the ball and can initiate play with it, and as such though we are quite capable of gaining possession, we lsoe it quite easily.

Our fullbacks run up n down the flanks for 90 minutes but are incapable of putting in a telling cross,our midfielders can impose themselves on the game with physicality, but cannot dictate play with probing passes(Poulsen,Tiago,Marchsio,Melo and even Sissoko occasionally make fair attempts, but intelligent passing is not a forte for any of them).

Camoranesi and Del Piero are quite adept at this,but they are no spring chickens; as such they cannot keep it up for a 30+ game season...

Giovinco ...is a mystery of Bermuda triangle proportions

Diego was expected to fill that role,but perhaps he needs time to settle in; and even when he does, it would not be wise to rely on him as our sole source of creativity.

Secco has put together a very decent team;the cogs are still trying to grind out the perfect harmony and hopefully they will, however the next transfer campaign needs to be focussed on acquiring more players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet-regradless of the posistion they play in.
papai

http://www.footballitaliano.co...

Interesting article, and I can see some of my previous comments put here word for word :P
Sam

Yeha Holymann, i agree with you there, Becasue we were playing 3 DMC's in the Three, there wqas no creativty (maybe Melo), therefore Diego had to drop deeper. Camo has to and will play in tghe Champs League.
HolyMann

oh and btw, Camoranesi is the player that can let Diego stay up the field and not come down to collect the ball.....
HolyMann

"He usely carries the ball up front, which means every player of the opposition can track back as well and they organise themselves."

so what would you suggest, long balls?? seems to be working well with the horrible crosses the wasteful attackers are getting....

Camoranesi is able to hold the ball, look for Diego, dictate the play a bit, unlike Poulsen/Melo/Sissoko who tend to directly go for a cross to the top of the field, or whats worse, try to make a run with the ball and lose possession in the worst part of the field. But for some reason you're talking about camoranesi not cutting it for the team when he in fact has been one of the stand out players this season (mind his defensive capabilities)
Robee

@ Anthony, I don't and never will believe that Iaquinta really intended to pass that ball to Amauri. I think he tried to put it in the bottom corner, and had his aim way off.

@ HolyMann, well I knew that part would have some opposition, and that's fine. Not everyone can share the same opinion, obviously. But have you seen any dangerous balls from Camoranesi just yet ?
I saw his spectacular run against Bayern for instance, and then we just lose possession. He usely carries the ball up front, which means every player of the opposition can track back as well and they organise themselves. And since we have less players in and around the box, compared to last season. Usually only 2 this year. (Read: here comes Diego's positioning again) Result = no danger at all.
If you're Barcelona you can work that space but we don't have those passers of the ball, when the team is back in the area, we will always find trouble breaking it.

Against Viola there's no doubt we should have locked the game, or even better: Iaquinta should have. But in a few other games like Bayern, Palermo, etc. the midfield really had to take at least part of the blame.
shakermaker

hey did anyone know its leggro's birthday to day
Anthony

The point that Alessio made was that Juve had more chances than Fiorentina. And not just half chances, they had some golden ones that they couldn't put away.

I agree that Giovinco should be tried as a seconda punta too. I think it will help the situation a lot. Or he should at least be played on the left in a 4-2-3-1. It depends on the players available for the game which formation would work better.

If we have to pair Melo with Sissoko or Poulsen because Tiago and Marchisio are injured, then it might be better to play 4-2-3-1. If Marchisio or Tiago are fit, then 4-3-1-2 would probably work best. The two formations can easily adjust during the game.
Anthony

o-man...you do know that Iaquinta gave Amauri an amazing assist for his goal don't you? So Iaqui-selfish is a poor choice of words.

And yes, we played much better than Fiorentina. They started to control the tempo in the second half, but after Ciro switched to the 4-4-2 Juve regained control.
agiamba

Ok, maybe not good. But 65% possession, and 4 golden chances compared to the Viola's 2? If we both converted 1/2 our easy chances, it would have been 2-1. Kinda irrelevant to the point at hand though.
o_man

I fail to see how we played a good game against violamerda when they finished the game on their terms by controlling the temp while we threw in long balls to Ama-shit and Iaqui-selfish for the last 20 min.

Remember how inter merda finished the game against Udi?They pegged them back so hard that all 11 Udi players were inside the fucking penalty box
roberto

I'd be happy seeing Giovinco leave somewhere on loan for a year to get some regular playing time. The reality is we're hindering this kid's potential by benching him day in day out. Leaving Juventus for a little bit will help him get his game back on track and help our club remember what he brings to the table.
Pablo

I agree the 4-3-1-2 will take time to settle and we should give it enough time as is reasonable. But I also think the problem it's not just the formation, I feel it is more something like stubbornness.

If things doesn't work out, you try to change something. Einstein (who might have been a great coach by the way) defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

So: two big guys up front its not working. PLEASE Ciro, give Giovinco (or me... I'm kinda big too though) a chance. The worst thing could happen is that we will not score enough (just like right now, what a coincidence!).
Pablo

Yes... I love this blog.
adam

Camoranesi imo can only reach his best form when he plays on the wings. In the center he's average.
georg

many problems.
1 diego became invinsible t oquick. like said in the article ( and by me many times) even a zidane needed lots of months to adapt. diego is good enough but needs time.

2 Iaquinta, is simply not good enough. common folks. his passion and working rate is inspirational and admiring. but he simply lacks class! trez and amauri are simply not in form, i think this is not the cae with iaquinta. he should have a nice sub role, but not a starter. kind of like solskjear had for many years with man u.

3 specialy now with a fit sissoko I would looove to see we try the 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-2-1-1
sissoko+ melo to guard the defence, common people I even challange barcelona to penetrate this wall.
diego as the playmaker, covered on the wings by gio nd camo. thus you can generate much much more dynamism creativity and also possesion wil increase. but thats just my opinion.
clear to me is the 2 static strikers, after 2 months doensnt work at all,...
HolyMann

Robee, i have to disagree about Camoranesi not cutting it.....he may not be a Pirlo type of player with his passes, but he creates just enough chances with his runs.....once he enters the field (whether for Juve or Italy) his presence is felt....

Alessio, perfect post to sum up with whats happening.....but with Trez back, and Del Piero returning from injury, i HIGHLY doubt Ferrara is gonna use Giovinco as a seconda punta (i hope he proves me wrong)
Robee

Great post, Alessio, my grats.

Well, a lot of thoughts in your post link up with each other.
First of all I am absolutely in favor of letting Giovinco work hi magic in front. I even think that is his best position in this formation.
With Giovinco in the game, we will certainly hold the ball longer in possession up front, where we are failing right now. Some twists and turns of Giovinco and we might even create something by pushing forward with our midfielders.
As I said it all links up: With Giovinco, Diego will be able to push much further up-field, since there's more confidence at the ball.

And with Giovinco and Diego pushing forward behind the strikers there will be more room up front for running actions and that's where Trezeguet should come in. He's still the most deadly player we have and yes he is banging towards his top form, I think. He's probably the less creative player we have, but what he does is boost the game in speed by passing it around immediately... Giving Giovinco and Diego more time and space before being covered.

So up front a seconda punta and our problems will all be solved, I guess. Even without Trezeguet, Amauri will do, because his working space won't be limited by Iaquinta or the other way around (which I don't prefer, not a big Iaquinta fan actually although he's a great professional and sub).

In midfield I still think we don't have the players for that 3-1. Marchisio, Tiago, Sissoko and Melo are gifts from heaven, but we lack something. A great passer who can lift the tempo of the game from the back. The name D'Agostino jumps to mind. Although I think, if all 4 are fit at the same time, we won't feel it.
I'm a great fan of Camo, but he simply doesn't cut it in this formation... His runs usually provide us with nothing. Maybe when the attack changes the way I said, we will see him delivering match-winning crosses once again.

And in the back... Don't want to repeat myself again... Kick 'm all out... Molinaro, Grosso, Zebina, Grygera. Give us Criscito and another right back, and use Caceres in the centre next year. Zabaleta is being named to join us next summer.
SEIJISM

I also agree with much that has been said Alessio. However I think our lack of scoring is due to the fact that we are adjusting to our new formation, injuries and lack of precision both in front of goal and service..

For one I think that we are definitely missing some creativity in front of goal, without having ADP up there and having two towers we are missing the final punch. In past seasons ADP would create opportunities by drawing the defense and either sending passes to the poaching strikers or creating opportunities for himself. Right now none of the poachers have this ability, so I agree with you that Giovinco, should be put in front until ADP is back.

In our new formation even though we have Diego, he is behind the attack distributing the ball and creating chances but our forwards seem to continue to track back versus waiting for the balls to come to them near the goal. Maybe as he said he needs to move up the field now that SIssoko is back, and together with Melo should be able to handle the ball recovery in the mid park. Camo / Marchisio / Tiago and our full backs need to put better service into the area as most of the times it seems they are way off, making our poachers ineffective.

I like Faisal's formation but seems that Ferrara in not fully convinced with Caceres and Giovinco.
Daniel

Just imagine this one:
Buffon
Caceres-Canna-Chiellini-Grosso
Sissoko
Camo-Marchisio
Diego
ADP-Gio

I know Melo isn't coming out, but can you imagine a more creative Juve?
Faisal

I agree with everything you've said... I've always seen Giovinco as able to play as a seconda punta, and I've believed it even more since you pointed out that defenders would be less inclined to foul him so much closer to the box... But I think that whoever plays in the midfield on Giovinco's side should be more of central midfielder than on the side. I see the formation as something like:
Buffon
Caceres-Canna-Chiellini-Grosso
Sissoko
Camo Melo
Diego
Poacher Giovinco

Obviously any of the three big men would be in the poacher position, and Melo would be more of a center mid
agiamba

I also think Trezeguet needs to start. His quality is indisputable, and I really think he's close to being back in form. With Diego behind and Giovinco to his side...he's gonna bang in the goals.