The Case Against Rafa Benitez

By: agiamba | April 14th, 2010

Ever since Ferrara was sacked, rumors have been spreading around that Benitez would be our next tactician. He is seemingly on the outs at Liverpool, and the LFC management would be happy to see him go, as they wouldn’t have to pay him an enormous amount of money they don’t have to sack him. With Zaccheroni obviously not staying around and Liverpool continuing to suck, the rumors have intensified. Today, there are all sorts of suggestions that Juventus have given the Fat Spaniard a one-week deadline to accept or reject the job. That’s a classic tabloid line…but I do think that our management is eyeing up Rafa seriously. Here is why we should do all we can to avoid him.

“Hey ref, help me out here! I need a reason to bitch and moan.”

Rafa Benitez’s basic strength is his tactics. There is no doubt that he is a master tactician, his excellent European record attests as such. In the league though, where you have “less important” games against opponents you cannot study as thoroughly, his record is well, mixed at best. Liverpool domestically have been nothing short of a failure under his tenure. Valencia he obviously did very well with, winning two league titles and a UEFA Cup. It’s hard to simplify without oversimplifying, but I believe one of the key differences is the team he started with. At Valencia, he was dealing with a weakened Spanish league and a strong Valencia side when he inherited. The Valencia team was the same core that had reached the 2000 Champion’s League final against Real Madrid, with young stars like Roberto Ayala, Ruben Raraja, David Albelda, Vincente Rodriguez, Pablo Aimar, Angloma, and veteran goalkeeper Santiago Canizares. The team was burgeoning with talented players, other ones include Gerard and Claudio Lopez. He was able to capture the league title, while not easy, was significantly easier than now. Real Madrid’s galacticos failures was starting to settle in around 2002, and 1999-2004 were lost years for Barcelona. The first year he won his Liga title, SuperDepor finished 2nd. At Liverpool, he arrived at a team that had been struggling in 4th-5th place the last two seasons and was clearly inferior to Manchester United and Chelsea.

Rafa Benitez is a good coach for taking an established team and taking them farther. He is not good at building a team together, in other words, you can consider him the anti-Ranieri. While Ranieri managed to cobble together a cohesive unit at Juventus, it has since fallen apart and crucially, the glue holding it together, the Old Guard, is aging and we need to start looking at replacements for Trez, Del Piero, and Camoranesi. Along with Buffon and Nedved, they were the crucial performers under Ranieri’s era. And that is why Benitez would be a horrible choice for Juventus- we are a team rebuilding and restructuring, we are not a team ripe for a title or cup challenge. And there are three aspects in which Benitez is a disaster, that are absolutely key for Juventus to return to challenging team. They are listed below.

i. Getting the best out of established players.
ii. Conducting smart transfers and integrating them into the team.
iii. Developing young players, both from our academy and from transfers, into starting XI material.

Oops.

i. Getting the best out of established players-

This one is a bit more positive than some of his other fields, as Hyppia, Carragher, Gerrard, Finnan, and Riise having relatively good form during his management. However, there are plenty of other players at Liverpool that were discarded that had already been established in the team. Chalk it up to them not deserving to be there in the first place, or falling into poor form, or not fitting into his system, however you’d like. He will certainly encounter that if he was at Juventus, and it doesn’t seem like he would react too well.

Secco and Benitez: A Match made in Hell

ii. Conducting smart transfers and integrating them into the team-

Obviously his role in the first portion would be far more limited than in England, in Italy, the Director of Sport (Secco) makes most of the transfer decisions. That said, managers have a fair amount of voice in the matter- Mellberg and Poulsen (instead of Xabi Alonso, damnit) were both requested by Ranieri personally. Not sure if Secco would have gone after Mellberg, but I think Poulsen was more of a joint operation after Ranieri declined Xabi. Either way, Benitez’s transfers have been absolutely horrendous at Liverpool, and it’s funny, despite how much he bitches about money, he’s spent a ton. Here’s a comprehensive list of his signings.

2004-2005:
SUCCESSES:
Xabi Alonso (£10.7 million)- Sold to Real Madrid for £30 million
Luis Garcia (£6 million)- Sold to Atletico Madrid for £4 million after a few decent years.

FAILURES:
Josemi (£2 million)- Returned to Spain after one season in a swap deal.
Fernando Morientes (£6.3 million)- Sold for £3million after a year and a half.
Antonio Nunez (£2 million, part of Michael Owen deal)- Returned to Spain to a newly promoted side after one year.
Mauricio Pellegrino (Free transfer)- One of Rafa’s men from Valencia, signed for 6 months and was not kept on.
Scott Carson (£750,000)- Loaned out, currently playing in the Championship.

2005-2006:
SUCCESSES:
Pepe Reina (?)- A very good goalkeeper.
Mohamed Sissoko- (£5.3 million) For the price, he played pretty well. Then again, look how he ended up get pushed out.
Daniel Agger- (£5 million) Again, for the price, he has done well enough.

FAILURES:
Peter Crouch (£7 million)- Never really settled in, and then Rafa moved to a one-man striker formation.
Boudewijn Zenden (Free transfer)- Injured and played poorly.
Robbie Fowler (Free transfer)- Played alright first 3 months, 2nd season sucked.

2006-2007:

SUCCESSES:
None.

FAILURES:
Álvaro Arbeloa (£2.5 million)- Played ok in his time there, but moved on this summer for the same fee.
Gabriel Paletta (£2 million)- Young defender signed, left 1 year later after 3 league appearances.
Dirk Kuyt (£10 million)- He is an average player and £10 million is a lot for an average player. But as a utility player, he’s not bad. It’s just those types (mediocre, utility) shouldn’t be spent that much money on. (Aka Poulsen, Tiago, etc…)
Craig Bellamy (£6.5 million)- You can blame his failure at Liverpool on his temperament. You can also blame his transfer on Rafa not seeing well in advance he is a nutjob. Actually left for a profit.
Jermaine Pennant (£7.5 million)- Left on free transfer to Real Zaragoza, after a crap loan at Portsmouth.
Mark González (?)- Left for Real Betis two seasons later.

2007-2008:
SUCCESSES:
Fernando Torres (£20.2 million)- One of the world’s best strikers.
Yossi Benayoun (£5 million)- Decent pickup for the money.
Martin Skrtel (£6.5 million)
Javier Mascherano (£17.0 million)
Emiliano Insúa (?)

FAILURES:
Ryan Babel (£11.5 million)- Signed at age 21 for a lot of money, and a colossal failure.
Lucas (£6.0 million)- I’ve never been terribly impressed.
Andriy Voronin (Free transfer)

2008-2009:
SUCCESSES:
None.

FAILURES:
Philipp Degen (Free transfer)
Andrea Dossena (£7 million)- Everyone in Italy raised their eyebrows when Liverpool signed Dossena for this much.
Robbie Keane (£19.3 million)- Sold for £12 million 6 months later.
Albert Riera (£8 million)- Never really lit it up, and is on the outs.
David N’Gog (£1.5 million)

2009-2010:
SUCCESSES:
None.

FAILURES:
Alberto Aquilani (£17.1M)- Everyone in Italy laughed when he signed the prissy injury-plagued midfielder. I pushed back in summer 2008 for us to sign Aquilani, but after the year he had, hell no. And that fee is laughable. He would have had problems at Juve given his injuries and attitude, to adjust to another league as well and to be asked to fill Xabi Alonso’s boots, well, he was screwed from the start.
Glen Johnson (£17.5M)- That is an enormous amount of money for a defender. For that price, you better be getting a vintage Zambrotta. He has a massive way to go to being valued at that.
Sotirios Kyrgiakos (Free transfer) Had a great first half of the season, but according to my Newcastle (and EPL fan) he has been “woefully out of it” since the winter break.
Maxi Rodriguez (Free transfer)- For free, it’s not a bad deal. But having lived in Madrid last year, I can tell you there’s a reason Atletico let him go for free. Not that great of an attitude, and a very inconsistent player.

What do I read from this? Two things- Number one, he’s not that good at identifying talent or more importantly, understanding who will or won’t work at Liverpool or in the Premier League. Second, by virtue of the large numbers of outgoing players, he has failed massively to help his transfers settle. Few players seem to have lasted over 2-3 years, and that’s understandable if they are asked to be a reserve or a bit-player. But he’s spent plenty of players like Bellamy, Riera, Keane, Pennant, Kuyt, etc, and they are not world class players. Rafa seems to have judged them poorly from the offset, but also, failed poorly to integrate them. It seems he cannot distinguish between good-players-he-is-signing-to-be-starters, and average-players-I-hope-play-well. Why does this matter when we have Secco? Well, he can still give his input. And can he help our transfers settle? In both cases, it seems like it’d be a further disaster than our last few transfer markets have been.

iii. Developing young players, both from our academy and otherwise, into starting XI material.

It seems I subconsciously chose these points in order of how miserable Rafa is at it. He’s a mediocre man manager, a poor transfer director, and an even worse developer of youth talent. Slam Fergie or Wenger if you want, but they both do a pretty decent job at it. I cannot think of bona fide young starlet that he has developed into a world-class player. Perhaps Mascherano, maybe Insua, but I would say like Fernando Torres, he was already a star when he joined Liverpool. There are dozens of transfers of young players in the above list that I omitted, because they never played or were bought and sold for peanuts. There have been some young players who have gone nowhere, and there have been a fair amount that have played decent enough…but never made the transition to world class under his management, ie- Sissoko, Babel, Agger, Lucas….the list goes on. Not one player has come up from the academy.

This is no good for Juventus. We need a manager who can get the best out of our existing players, integrate transfers well, and develop youth. Our transfers have been a mixed bag, though the talent is there. We have existing players like Poulsen who have shown promise, but need to be given some personal instruction. And lastly, we have an amazing group of young players- There’s Giovinco, Marchisio, and De Ceglie from the 2008 transfer window, of which Marchisio has transitioned to world-class but the other two are struggling. We have Candreva (temporarily), Ariaudo, Criscito, Palladino, all of which we have interest in. Then there’s the academy, that has Rossi, Esposito, Marrone, Giovinco, Immobile, Pinsoglio, De Paola, Bamba, Giandonato, Yago, Belcastro, Alcibiade, all who are brimming with potential following their 2nd Viareggio win in a row. In particular, Yago, Rossi, Immobile, Marrone, Pinsoglio, and Alcibiade are some of the most promising players from our Primavera in the last decade. Pinsoglio and Immobile may be the best from their position. We badly need a coach that can integrate them into the lineup.

The Dark Horse Candidate: Prandelli is my first choice, but I see a lot of 1992-1994 Lippi in him

So who is good with players, transfers, and youth? Well, if we’re looking at the EPL then Wenger of course, but it’d be impossible to pry him from Arsenal. But we’ve got our own in Italy- Ex-Juventino Prandelli has the most proven track record in all 3 departments, and he has plenty of Serie A and CL experience, though getting him to switch from Fiorentina would be difficult. Ex-Primavera coach Gian Piero Gasperini, over at Genoa has integrated many of his transfers excellently, like Thiago Motta and Diego Milito of best example. He’s gotten some of his older players to bring out their best, like Mesto, or Marco Rossi who, dirty player he is, is playing in very good form the last two years. And his record with young players (and specifically, young Italians) is excellent- Bocchetti, Criscito, Palladino, Sculli, ~~Amelia~~, etc. He’d be poachable. Allegri is certainly attainable now that he’s been fired, and he has done well with Cossu, Matri, Jeda, Biondini, Ariaudo, Marchetti, etc. (Btw- Whoever stated in the comments the other day he got sacked for entertaining offers from Fiorentina and Juve, claim your prize. Looks like you were exactly right.) For me, either of these three coaches should be considered far ahead of Benitez.

In addition to all of this, his tactics and rotation are a bit…iffy at times. You think Ranieri played for draws, how about this?

In sum…..Benitez, mai alla Juve!!

Some Related Juventus Posts:

Category: Team News

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Anthony

ok? juve sucks wut fkn players do u have theres no one on your team. I wouldnt trade Torres for your whole team talking about our shit season look at yours you lose to Udinese a team what a couple wins.Garbabe your article is just shit get back to the drawing board because you have no idea what your doing.
Anthony

I think Giovinco would stay another season if Deschamps, Prandelli, Allegri or Lippi come to coach. I think he might be out the door if Benitez comes because he doesn't really play much youth.

I can almost tolerate Benitez coming if Juve DIDN'T have a big transfer budget lol. His tactics are good and he might be able to get the best out of our current players. I just don't trust him with the rebuilding job, and I question whether he has a winning mentality. Don't let him buy anyone and I think he'd do ok lol. Juve need to offload the crap and bring in some new players this summer though. So Benitez is not the right man for the job.
Dhruv

yeah..regarding sissoko.I think it was the perfect case of a transfer benefiting both clubs.
He started well prior to his injury,but after that wasn't quite upto it and hes done really well at Juve, so I guess that one went well for both teams and the player just needed new surroundings.
roberto

preview's up.
j

great post there, Dhruv.

hate the "thank you" for sissoko and xabi, though i would still say sissoko was a good buy for us.

but you can't denied some of benitez's decisions are baffling, such as the keane and aquiliani.

keane for me, wasn't so bad that he was offloaded after 6 months, at a loss too!

aquiliani, i still think was an awful buy, too much, yet can't start immediately for a team looking to go from strength to strength after a great finish (2nd in the league, was it?), and a replaceable for a key player (xabi), finally he's crocked, an injury-prone player will always remain so (van nistenrooy is the only one contrary to this), will he ever do a robben (moments of brilliance) to justify his pricetag? for a club with limited budget, i don't think it was worth the risk

and of course there are many others examples, but i'll leave it for now

anyway, the owners want out, should be great news for liverpool fans!

for us, can't wait for inter, forza juve!
Jorid

Dhruv: Good post and very informative. Although Rafa is not a bad alternative, I'd much rather have someone like Prandelli or Gasperini in charge of the club next year, if possible. They are both established Serie A managers who know the league very well, both fairly successful and have both been part of Juventus in some way in their pasts. I highly doubt Benitez would want to join Juve right now though. If he does in fact leave Liverpool, he'd most likely go back to La Liga, in charge of Real where he could manage Arbeloa and Xabi once again.
ked

The case FOR Rafael Benitez:

http://www.footballitaliano.co...
Dhruv

I think you make a few fair points, and as a Juve fan, you have a right to voice out your opinions on who may/may not manage your club.
However, there are a few points regarding your transfers I'd like to change,considering as you've said you dont watch the premier leage regularly.

Year 2004-05
I think you have got this one fairly correct.However, you must also look at the team he inherited, which was nowhere near good enough to compete in Europe or in England, and he won the champions league with them(beating a very good Juventus side on the way).
I think you underestimate the Luis Garcia transfer,as he was probably the main reason liverpool won in Europe and was worth his weight in gold, plus he had some great times at anfield and was sold for 4 million, and more importantly was used as part of the Torres transfer in some way.
Again Scott Carson is an interesting buy, as he was and is highly rated, but I would not classify it as a failure primarily because he was bought for 750000 and sold for more than double that, as he was not happy being a cover for reina(which most keepers in the world would have to settle for).
All in all a decent time in the transfer market and not much anyone else could have done with the Owen situation.

2005-06
I would probably say was one of his better forays into the transfer market.
Reina and Agger as you have said were definitely successes, and are now looked up as bargains and have the potential to be truly class players for the club.
Sissoko was one buy I was sceptical about, and I think it showed good judgement on the part of Benitez to move him on when he did, and specially for the kind of money Juve paid(thank you), which was almost double what we bought him for. This is one move which I would suggest worked for both player and club, as sissoko was beginning to stagnate at liverpool, and seems to have rejuvenated himself in Juve.
Crouch can hardly be classified as a failure.He was hardly the player he is now before Rafa got his hands on him, and did a great job at liverpool, and Rafa didn't want to sell him, but it was Crouch who wanted to leave, and Liverpool made a decent profit from his sale.(to think people were baulking at the 7 million rafa paid)
Zenden and Fowler were both frees and didn't command hefty wages were bought on to guide the youngsters and beef up the squad and then moved on.Nothing wrong with that.

2006-07.
Arbeloa was I think one of Benitez's best signings, for the price and his contribution to the team. Highly underrated,his worth is only now known when hes gone to Madrid. You classify it as a failure because we didnt really earn that much of a profit on him.However, that was primarily because it was his last year of contract and being a madrid boy he wanted to go back home, and the manager rightfully didnt want to stand in his way after his service to the club.Further we signed Johnson then,will move into that later.
Kuyt is an important player, and is the kind of player every team needs atleast one of. Hard working and gives everything for the team, and scores extremely crucial goals.Hes done reasonably well in Liverpool and scored quite a few goals for a right winger and done his defensive duties well. All in all not a flashy buy, but well worth the 9.5 million for his service and stability to the team.Only this year he has been off form, but as has most of the liverpool team.
Pennant I agree with you, a mistake waiting to happen, and should have had a look at his history before thinking he could have made him settle down and fulfil his talent.
Paletta again a mistake. A small one however, bought for the reserves, and quickly shipped out recouping around the same amount paid for him.(showing he was quick to sort out his mistakes)
Bellamy is a bit of a funny one.Although troublesome, I know there are many liverpool fans who would take him in a flash now(including me). However, I think he had his chance and he couldn't quite cut it, and am glad to see him doing well. He was decent for liverpool(off field situations aside) and was sold for quite a bit of a profit to get us Torres:).Just that would make him a great buy(sale) for most liverpool fans I presume.
Mark Gonazalez again as you said failed to live up to the hype.Was a gamble by Benitez on a young player, but again only cost about 1.5 million, and as Rafa realised he wasn't up to it, he was sold on for 4.2 million, almost a 3 million profit.

2007-08
torres: no point talking about it, a bargain for the money.
Benayoun: Again a great buy for the money,provided great service for the 5 million, and even now when hes close to 30 and may leave liverpool to get in some money, he'd probably go off for closer to 9 million.
Again one his underrated but better buys.
Skrtel: 6.5 Million.Proved to be a great buy in his first 2 seasons. Hasn't been the same since injury, but hopefully can rediscover his form and displace carragher in the starting line-up in the near future.However,most people wouldnt classify him as a failure.Hes a good player whose been a bit off form this season, but is young and improving, and could again easily fetch much more money than the 6.5 million.
Mascherano: One of the best defensive midfielders in the game, and at a good price considering his age not to mention captain of argentina.Great buy.(wish he had picked up tevez too)
Insua: bought for nothing. Young player, already established as first choice at left back(mainly due to lack of another fit one).I think hes a good back-up and is still learning his trade and is young and will only improve,but thrown into the deep end a bit,having to play so many games this season. A decent buy again, and hardly a failure but should definitely not be first choice atleast at the moment.
Voronin: mistake.smells of desperation to get someone in with a lack of money.I'm glad we got some money for him, probably recouping the wages paid out to him.
Babel: Signed for 11.5 million, and has failed to live upto the hype.But now finally hes starting to do a bit.I wouldn't say hes been a colossal failure, but maybe a disappointment. Many liverpool fans are undecided about giving him another season or selling him on, and I think most would be happy either way,considering we could probably get back around 10 million for him.
However, maybe next season might be interesting for him, considering hes been beginning to show a bit of maturity and push his way into the team. Hopefully he doesnt go to another premier league team, as he could come back to haunt us.(but wouldn't blame anyone on selling him)

Lucas: I frankly dont understand why hes been a player everybody loves to hate.I think hes an improvement on what sissoko was.Maybe he doesnt have the physical presence, but he runs around putting in tackles and makes the simple passes,and doesnt really do much wrong.The complaint is that he doesnt do much good to justify his starting place, which might be true.However, I sympathize with him as I feel its hard to try showcase your skills with the fans on your backs from day 1, and hes scared to make mistakes because of that, and I think that hampers his game in Liverpool.I'm glad Rafa shows faith in him and put his arm around him and is trying to get his confidence up.However,I dont know if he'll ever be more than a squad player in liverpool,but hes young and hopefully he can prove me wrong.(I do think he would do quite well in Italy though)

2008-09:
This is a season where I agree with you, things did start going wrong and we are still feeling the effects of it.Although funnily enough this was our best ever season on the pitch.
I think as most people would have known, Rafa wanted barry and keane to play together,and also keep alonso and play barry on the left.
However,the board told him to raise the funds and bought him keane.He tried selling alonso who hadn't done well the previous 2 seasons to raise money for barry,and was unable to do so.(thank you juve)
The rest as we say is history.
Keane came on, did nothing of note was sold on. I am glad we recouped quite a bit of the money we spent on him.(close to 15-16 million recouped and not 12.5)
However, I wonder if this was the season where the actual problems at liverpool regarding the owners vs the management came to light.
Had Rafa not got Barry,he may have wanted to spend that 19 million differently maybe on a player like Silva, who we all know Rafa has always been rumoured to be close to signing.
I guess we'll never know.
However, I agree with you that this will be listed as Rafas failings in the transfer markets,as if he was being pushed around by the owners he should have got up and left.
However,I'm sure the owners made these mistakes and realised them through the Keane sage,else they would not have given rafa control over transfers later that year.

Dossena is the only signing I would say that Rafa could have spent that much of money in a better way with.
And I agree with you. But on the positive side, mistake made,and quickly rectified for about 5 million taking in a 2 million loss.
Riera has done decently till he fell out with Rafa 2 weeks ago after he rumoured to have hit a young player of the club.For this reason I think most liverpool fans would completely back Rafa if he was sold, and I'm sure we'd recoup most if not all of that 8 million.
Again Riera might never have been if we had got barry.

NGog: Great Signing! These are the kinds of signings are club needs to make! 19 years old 1.5 million, already on the fringes of the first team and scored 10+ goals this season(which is more than most established players in the premier league).Still learning, and if he doesnt make it at liverpool, we would make a huge profit.These are the kinds of signings which prove healthy for the club both financially,and if it works out we have a real player in our hands for almost nothing. I think its nice to see Rafa finally get in a talented youngster not for the reserves but for the first team.

All in all this season was the only one where you could actually put a huge black mark next to Rafa's records, and much of that could be attributed to the infighting at the club.

2009-10

Johnson is anything but a failure.Sadly been injured (who hasnt) for quite a while. But one of the great attacking right backs in the game, and you can see the visible improvement in his defensive game since hes been working with Rafa.

Kyriagkos: Signed for 1.5 million and not free.Signed to beef up the backline in case of injuries,since Hyypia left.
Has more than done his job, and you'd probably have a lot of liverpool fans arguing for his inclusion in the starting line-up.
Although for the price, this most likely was just a stop-gap considering his age.But has given a lot of people something to think about.

Maxi: Free transfer. Doing well till now. Classy player who keeps it simple.
And more importantly notice the visible change in Mascheranos attitude now that his friend is here.And how Masch is now talking about staying for 6-7 years.
I think he could be a good squad player in the next 1-2 year, but age again may define this.But on a free transfer and decent wages,was worth it.

Aquilani: I would tend to agree with you and classify at as a mistake, but not for the same reasons.
Some of his performances have been quite nice, and I think he could do well if given the chance next year,and is of a decent age and has a decent resale value in Italy.
However, as you say it was a bit of an expensive buy,but i think very little was paid as a down payment, and this transfer had a lot of clauses to it, and it doesnt look like any have been fulfilled yet.
But my main argument against this was his being injured for the first few months, considering we needed to push on from last year.I think that 17 million could have been spent on someone who could have contributed the whole season, maybe even a support striker.
However, its easy to look back and say this in hindsight, but at the beginning of the season you wouldnt have expected gerrard torres johnson and benayoun to be injured as they have been.
Also I think Rafa made a profit this season on the whole, due to the sale of Alonso, which is nice to see considering we bought two big players in Johnson and Aquilani.
However, one must wonder if Rafa had thought that he had a transfer budget of 20 million with him considering he was going after Lavezzi and Silva, and whether that was taken away from him at the last minute blaming new contracts for most of the key players.
If we had signed Aquilani, Johnson and Silva/Lavezzi/striker for a net spend of 20 million, most people would have been arguing that it was probably his best season in the transfer market.
However, as it turned out we got aquilani and johnson and both were injured for quite a bit, and most people had their guns out for Rafa.

All in all Rafa must take some of the blame, but his transfer record has more successes than failures, and he has "BUILT" a great team at liverpool also taking into consideration the players he wanted but missed out on because of the board or other issues like villa,dani alves and simao to name three.

Take into consideration what we had when he arrived and see our team now and with continuous ins and outs and constant upgrades.
Hence, I would take this season as a blip and hopefully next season we not only get a good transfer budget for 2010-11, but also the missing 20 million from 2009-10 and I am quite confident liverpool will do well.

Hence, I would hate for Rafa to goto Juve, as I can see him making them a European force again and strong contenders for that league,especially since that league suits his tactical know-how and his way to play the game and I'm glad you dont want him there.

I hope that proves to be an interesting read, and I have tried to stay as neutral as I possibly could be and have based my ideas on the players on following the premier league and some other leagues quite often over the last 7-8 years.

Hoping to get your comments:)
load of crap

what a load of crap !!!
gigi

lol policeman killed by a catania fan has fuck all to do with us. I guess the 80 juventini actually from torino got fed up with the rest of the city mocking them and took it out on the coach?

I shall enjoy Inters 4-1 win tonight even though they suck as much ass as u guys.

What do you think .. Milito hat trick 11/1 .. im tempted!

Ciao ;)
jed

"milito is too tired"

really troll, cause i'm pretty sure he only cam on for the last twenty minutes against fiorentina.
bianconeri

So now the 171,000 phone calls Moggi found have gone missing, no wonder Moratti wasn't worried about this new investigation.

http://goal.com/en/news/10/ita...

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an "accidental" fire where those transcripts were held.
Marco

Amauri will start today mark my words. What the hardon with this guy is is beyond me. Such utter shit. I hope history records the era of "italian infatuation with shitty south american players"

And yes, a burnt copy of Football Manager 2010 would do a better job than Secco. lol @ Alastair.

And no, Rafa is not what we need. far from it. Can we get a good manager capable of actually doing something here.

First get an italian: Capello, Mazzarri, something like this would be really good.
The only foreign manager we should consider is Arsene Wenger.

Today should be a good game, but if Cannavaro, Grosso, Amauri, Camoranesi are anywhere near this team then we're fucked BIG TIME!
papai

i hate this liverpool fixation that is going about in the club.
Alastair

Wow, Juve linked with Kuyt now.

Can we fire Secco and replace him with a copy of Football Manager 2010? It would do a better job of scouting players, and has about the same charisma.
DJP

ANYBODY BUT AMAURI! PLEASE GOD, NO AMAURI!

Yet after all of those caps, I have a feeling dipshit Zac will go with the fake Italian with two gallons of grease in his hair.
Blanda_Amania

LOL, IVO! I haven't seen that movie in forever...

Comrade, thanks! I'll look for ya.

All, let's DO this. I'm not going to make any predictions. As usual, I'm running on "hope". I hope that the boys are just as pumped to kick ass as we are.

Go, Juve!
ndcolin

comrade: i used to live in in sicily while i was in high school. that's the reason some irish kid is among all these italains. part of the reason why i'm not a juve supporter is that so many people in sicily and the mezzogiorno in general were fans of that team even though turin was techinically the most geographically distant place from where they lived...it just reminded me too much of the yankees/lakers/cowboys here in the US or ManU(re) in England
Ivo

Your defense is so bad we could even beat you with a 5-4-1

Thanks captain obvious! Our defence (senza Chiellini) is so bad my local GSSL team could beat them. Blindfolded.

That said, 'can' rarely means 'will' in football, so don't hold your breath. If Zac was smart, he would just walk in the locker tomorrow, show a picture of your slimy ass team, and ferociously scream:

RELEASE THE KRAKEN!! And then you're fucked :)
I am not here to troll

wow finally they've stopped talking about calciopoli, this is going to be so much fun, you guys play for pride we're just going out there to have some fun, and I hope Mario scores at least twice against you guys and then celebrates in front of the juve fans, for sure eto'o is scoring, milito is too tired, last time we played you we didnt have wesley, with him on the field this will be too easy, he's been well rested, and make no mistake there will be goals for us, 4-2-3-1, guaranteed goals. Your defense is so bad we could even beat you with a 5-4-1.
j

the safer bet is to stick with iaquinta, but this could be the day amauri finally delivers, perharps from the pride and joy of being given italian citizenship

any chance of that happening?
alessio

But enough about Benitez and Calciopoli right now....there's a game tomorrow, even if it means nothing but pride for us, and we're going to probably lose 0-2 or so. How shitty is our forwards situation? ADP-Trez was a no brainer, now Trez is out and we're stuck between Amauri and Iaquinta. Do we pick the fake Italian who sucks shit, or the other guy who is horribly, horribly out of form and lacking in confidence?
alessio

i have to admit that after reading some of this stuff on calciopoli that your team may have gotten a pretty raw deal a few yrs back

No shit. I've been saying that for the last 4 years, and everyone said I was an idiot. If you read the Calciopoli documents, it's obvious it was a farce of a trial.

But who cares, right? A anti-Juventino Palermo fan conceding "oh yeah, you were right" doesn't change anything. The FIGC won't be giving us back Scudetti, can't erase the relegation, and no one can comp us for the 200mil+ or so we lost. At best, we get an apology and Moggi returns.

On second thought, that last part there might be worth it all.
Comrade

ndcolin: Are you from Palermo? I mean.. not from Palermo offside, but from Palermo, Italy?
ndcolin

wow, how many times can i write "admit" in one post...
ndcolin

ale, those were two idiot fans in a one-time occurence. and the next home game all the tifosi in the barbera applauded cavani and bertolo. you've had DOZENS of fans acting that way on several occassions, and your fan base never really seemed to show remorse. apples and ornages

that being said, while i have to admit i've been anything but a bianconeri supporter in the past, i have to admit that after reading some of this stuff on calciopoli that your team may have gotten a pretty raw deal a few yrs back
Comrade

Blanda, I haven't written in a couple of weeks. Will write this weekend. My first name is Saurabh.
jed

troll, u are missing the point, all i see is moggi trying to clear his name. Yes he is guilty and is a dirty cheat. BUT, everyone else in the league is the same as they all had relations with directors/refs.

The league cannot punish everyone if everyone is guilty or there would be no serie A. Moggi is just trying to clear his name and get back into football clean.

The only thing that might change if moggi won and "calciopoli 2.0" came about is that inter may be stripped of one trophy and moggi is clean. THATS IT. the scar will not be re-opened
michele-dellacroce(ASR)

i'd go with A lol
michele-dellacroce(ASR)

as a Roma fan, i accept the consequences of what we did. i wouldn't feel right knowing that one team got fucked while the rest of us moved on. and so should all you inter fans. there should either be;
A)restitution for juve and we all move on from this.
B)or any team(not punished already) is punished suiting there level of involvement with the designators.
michele-dellacroce(ASR)

@mickey...ok where should i start..

"Whether he is or isnt(guilty) is irrelevant"
WHAT!? lmao that's kinda the focal point here.

"for the good of italian football this must never come back, as it remains a permanent scar on italian football to this day"
so says the guy who's team DIDN'T go down to serie b.

"I like how you guys call your team the pride of italy but given the fact that you could give a rat’s ass about what happens to the rest of us Id say you are far from it"
why should they? they have good reason to believe that they didn't deserve what they got. you just expect them to move on? while people who are as guilty or more get off scot free?
jed

as a roma fan, i must say that moggi is right. All or none, it is stupid to say that only juve or only inter had relations with the directors or refs. Roma and palermo's one little line recording means they are guilty also. Juve, inter, milan, roma, caglieri, palermo, lazio, fiorentina, etc all of the teams are guilty of what moggi was accused of (no matter how much they did it).
michele-dellacroce(ASR)

caro juve;

that game tomorrow, against the pezzi di merda, if you could win that, it would really help us out lol. thanks in advance!
tifosi della roma.
I am not here to troll

jose given the fact that moggi's opinion is not the same as everyone else's regarding who is guilty or not Id say it is you who should be scared, considering how the courts think that only moggi is guilty, not anyone else. Whether he is or isnt is irrelevant, for the good of italian football this must never come back, as it remains a permanent scar on italian football to this day, to have another calciopoli would only send italy further down the tubes, I like how you guys call your team the pride of italy but given the fact that you could give a rat's ass about what happens to the rest of us Id say you are far from it, wow and you guys call us bad, poveri illusi.
I am not here to troll

woops wow it should have read "only moggi is guilty" not "only moggi is difficult"
I am not here to troll

wow vince can you read? Only moggi is difficult was pretty much what they were saying, so yeah game over, and now there's gonna hell to pay for this whole ordeal you put the rest of italy through, it wasnt just us who would have been hurt by this, palermo, roma, cagliari. But no matter, whats done is done, if you think this is far from over than you are just being woefully optimistic, Moggi is guilty, and dont think others will be punished as well, Im pretty sure that the only person who said everyone was guilty was moggi, the court said nothing about that nor did the investigators. Now our lawyers are gonna hammer moggi BIG TIME for his sneaky little evidence construction, you know how he combined different tapes together and passed them off as all from the same call, did you really think they were that stupid? Moggi has fooled people for the last time, Im sure the courts will make sure that nothing like this ever happens again, its bad for italian football, it destroys our reputation. No the only ones who would have benefitted from this new calciopoli would have been juventus, which is what sets it apart from the first calciopoli as inter was not the SOLE benefactor as many of your brainless fans claim. Every other supporter who was not a juve supporter was against this, you have messed with us for the last time juventini, game over.
mac

All right, U awake? Good. Could someone please give me a projected line up? Thanks.
mac

You guys have a game in less than 24 hours and you are talking about your next coach? Wake up!
alessio

Yeah Palermo has never fucked with their own players either. http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/...
Antonio

"But we have long, long way to go before a policeman is killed in one of our games. You guys are so far ahead"

Wrecked!