PotD: “We Chose the Wrong Colors”

I think we should still use the 4-2-3-1, with Brazzo on the right flank, and De Ceglie on the left in Camo and Gio's absences. Plus, De Ceglie needs to get some more playing time, and has shown to be better as a left mid then as a leftback, and Brazzo has a great eye for goal which would help out the lone striker up front alot.

Well Anthony, you nailed it... The 4-2-3-1 wasn't succusful always, just because they let some players go and so on... But when fit nad running, it was obvious that was the way to go imo...

Marco is right on a lot of points, it isn't about the perfect formation, it is about players that have a lot of heart and determination and some skill to go along with that. And these last few games I have seen very little heart or determination from the 11 players out there. If you have to bench some of them then do it, Juventus were always known as the team in Italy that never gives up and fights hard till the very end, that is simply not happening anymore. A manager change may be the only thing that can get the players motivated again this season?

Juventus have to do whatever it takes to hold on to a CL spot this year because if Juv drop down to 5th and miss the CL next year it is going to make that road back to the top longer and put more of a finacial strain on the club.

New post up.

Anthony, of course I know that. But when Iaquinta was around, Ferrara would stick with Amauri. When Trezeguet got off his first injury, Amauri was still more prevailant. It wasn't until recently (last couple of matches) that trezequet became preferred, then he got injured again.

Marco....you do know that Trez and Iaquinta are both injured and Ferrara has been forced to start Amauri has much as he has, right? If you think Ferrara is starting Amauri because he prefers him then you're wrong. When Trez was fit he started. He started against Parma but had to be subbed off because he picked up an injury...not because Ferrara thought Amauri was a better option.

We had a lot of problems with the 4-2-3-1 as well like Alessio and Comrade said. And my biggest concern with that formation is we don't have the players to play it on a consistent basis. When one of Gio or Camo (or both like right now) are injured, we won't be able to play it.

Juventus problems are not found in the formation os their players, but the players themselves. I am amazed that people are not laying credit where credit is due.

1. Defense: The addition of Cannavaro and Grosso have been two of the worst decisions this team could make. Cannavaro can be at his best considered swiss cheese. It's a God send that Chiellini is as good as he is. When you watch just about every goal conceded over the last month, it has been Cannavaro who has been continuously out of place, wandering around, or simply burned like nobody's business. The Azzurri captain will do his country and team a favour if he hangs up those boots immediately. Grosso is one of the worst defenders around. He has great pace, and completes great crosses. But if a team presses, Grosso is at his weakest. Next to a weak Cannavaro you get a double wammy! Can't wait for the world cup when Chiellini will have to work triple to cover for Zambrotta, Cannavaro, and Grosso.

2. Midfield. We cannot control the ball in mid field. No creativity, no real worthy possession. Partly due to the brazilians, but moreso due to who we have playing. Camro currently injured, isnt the same player he used to be. Diego is well marked, but so is Cassano at samp, yet I see Cassano constantly creating, while Diego just seems off. Melo has been horrendous, Tiago should have been banished from Juventus years ago. I am happy he is leaving now. The player/players who should be playing in mid, have been completely benched this season Giovinco and DeCeglie. It was obvious on sunday DeCeglie lacks the confidence he needs to be playing his best (last years euro cup) this is a solid player, who has played twice. He should be starting. Giovinco, I'm of the mind of just about everyone else - he should be starting all the time. This is 'possibly' the greatest italian talent of the next 10 years and he's vegetating on the bench. Being his size has benefits. Marchisio, I know many of you love this kid, but He isn't the saviour we're all waiting for, that quality is in Giovinco and DeCelgie. I would love to see our mid consist of those three, rather than over rated brazilians.

3. Offense: Amauri Amauri Amauri - Juventus have gone downhill since his arrival. NOT since Calciopoli. Amauri is the most overrated player in the western world. The idea was that he would be the replacement for Ibra years ago. It hasn't panned out that way. I look forward to the end of this social experiment. Why Ferrara was hell bent on playing him every single game is beyond me. Especially when you have proven players and performing players like Iaquinta and trezequet sitting on the bench. It was this move, and this move alone that showed me Ferrara was not up to the job.

What can we do to fix this: Honestly, we have to clean house. There is no other way to fix this mess. We have failed miserably in Europe, Any given coach would have been gone after that drubbing. Yet, Ferrara remains. Partly because it isn't all his fault. Blanc and Secco have proven time and time again that they have little idea of how to operate business on the pitch. These three cancers at Juventus need to be removed, or we will be faced with not years but decades of rot and mediocrity. This is only the beginning, yet this is the exact point where we can stop the rot. Robee you've touched on it with some of the great players who have been thrown out - had they been able to develop at juventus, who knows how good they could be. We need a new era to begin asap - cause if this continues you can bet Napoli is going to savagly rape us.

Also had incredible difficult breaking down Maccabi Haifa. Once on a set-piece with Chiellini, and once thanks to Camo. As Comrade said...no formation is the silver bullet.

Sam, IMHO no formation is best formation. In 4-2-3-1 we conceded a lot of goals.

When you think about it the 4-2-3-1 was our best formation, apart from the Napoli match, which was defensive stupidity. We played good football and created numerous opportunities. But it all went wrong when Del Piero came back into the team and we switched to a narrow 4-2-3-1. Giovinco was kicked out (for some reason) and the tactic didn't work anymore. We should still go with that tactic in my opinion even if it means playing Salihadmizic on the right wing.

Robee took the words out of my mouth... the only thing I would disagree with is the bit about melo. He is an overrated piece of shit!

He actually found a formation that would've probably done and still would do the trick... But it's his or Secco's fault for selling the players he needed to be able to play the 4-2-3-1. They didn't bring back Palladino or Lanzafame. They let Yago go, to play in someone else's fucking primavera... Madness... And when he could field Giovinco, he refused to... With Camo out the 2nd best thing would've been a 4-3-2-1, but no... Face it alessio; Ferrara screwed up.

And all the other players you named, except for Melo (who had some private problems on top of the immense pressure), have one thing in common... See that hill ? Well, they're over it. Cannavaro can suck my balls, Grosso always was like Charlie Chaplin with luck and Alex; I'm sorry to say it, but his run in Turin is almost over. I just hope he can end it in a nice way, next season, when he can stay healthy during pre-season, maybe even with the first prize after Calciopoli in his hands, that would be a way to say goodbye. "I've brought you back, Seba can take it from here" or something like that :p

Anyway if you think about it, all those mess ups and still our future looks bright (if we manage to get a CL spot that is). Criscito, Ariaudo, Chiellini, Sissoko, Melo, Diego, Giovinco are stars for years to come and that's not even mentioning a few other uncertainties like Rossi or Marrone...

Apuzzo, the hope for the Guardiola Effect is long gone. There is a lot of explanations why Guardiola is different from Ferrara, but I'll just briefly mention my quite obvious hypothesis, and that is Guardiola had the players ready for a glory era, whereas Ferrara does not. There's more to that than this, Guardiola is a better coach than Ferrara, but ultimately, I think the main reason for Barca's success and our shittiness is differences in player quality, which can be attributed to a variety of reasons.

For that reason, I don't see a lot of point to getting a new coach. Can Hiddink coach better than Ferrara? Yes, no one is denying it. But how much better, given that Amauri has been mentally gone for the last year, Del Piero is in the worst form of his entire career, Cannavaro and Grosso are underwhelming at best, and Felipe Melo has turned out to be a giant piece of shit. Of all of those, the only one you could really blame Ferrara for is the Felipe Melo situation, though I think it's mostly Melo being an overrated piece of trash than Ferrara coaching him poorly.

If Maifredi and Ancelotti got time at the helm (even with better results) Ferrara deserves it too. As for Johonna's last paragraph, that's not the football culture in Italy but Juve does not have a history of sacking coaches midseason, Ranieri was the first in nearly 40 years. As for Einstein, disregarding the fact he's a physicist not a coach, the problem is precisely that Ferrara isn't trying the same thing over. We've tried 3-4 formations this season, which given the characteristics of some of our players (Diego, Melo, ADP, etc) doesn't work too well.

Alessio, ok - granted, changing coaches mid season never really worked out for Inter. Still, I dont think that Hiddink is a mercenary.

My main point was that he managed to get good results out of a team that was previously failing without getting new management or players.

Clearly, something is not working at Juventus. Realistically, the squad cannot be completely overhauled right now and neither can the management structure. The easiest thing to change, realistically, is the coach (which is why so many teams do it).

Of course, the club could try to ride it out, but that really isn't the football culture in Italy. And, if something isn't working, doing whatever it is again will probably not change the outcome. Albert Einstein said it best: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Realistically yesterday was the last straw and although i think it's a shame I think it is inevitable that Ferrara will be fired. I also think Hiddink is an excellent candidate, if we get him we will finish 3rd or maybe even second but most importantly we will get very far in the Europa league as he is the king of knockout football.

alessio, thats not very fair. While interistas have banned the word Italian from their vocabulary, Guss isnt a bad coach. Call him a mercenary if you want; which I agree, but he can do good things for Juve. You seem to have this whole Pep Guardiola (to lazy to search his name and correct it)when it comes to Ciro. Its not gonna happen, the dude has to go. Lets be honest, theres not a lot of Italian coaches available and the ones that are available, are not worthy. Guss for half a season is not bad.

if there is a coach that i want to be at juve, that is juventini, it is Michael Laudrup.

He plays 4-2-3-1 :) Additional benefit is that with him Poulsen might be rejuvenated :)

We'll have Copa Italia game against Napoli on Wednesday, wont we?

Yes, sacking coaches midseason and replacing them with foreign mercenaries is a great way to win silverware. An Interista should know better.

i totally agree with you Jorid. personally i don't think Guss is ALL that. and after all, you can only play with cards you are dealt (i.e. Amauri, Canna, Grosso, etc..)

Maybe all it would take is a change in training or a shake-up in tactics. Ranieri was talking about the change in coaching at Roma and saying that sometimes the only thing wrong with a coach is that the players are board with how they are working. A new face with some new ideas is all it takes to get them reinvigorated.

Take Guus's stint at Chelsea. Scolari had run that team into the ground (figuratively). Hidink came in and turned everything around. No new players, just new ideas.

It could work.

Although I have lost almost all of my faith in Ciro and his ability to turn this team around, I am perplexed at the joy some Juve fans express at the mere mention of Guus Hiddink's name. Sure, he's a good coach, but some of you guys here(and Juventini on other sites like Goal.com and Calciomercato) are dreaming a bit too much I think. Could Guus come in helpful? Maybe, but he does not have a magic wand. Some fans seem to think "BRING GUUS! He will turn this team around for sure and take us back to the top!" How so? It's not as if Guus comes in, the morons in charge of Juventus(minus Bobbygol who's the only one who has a brain and cares about Juventus) are going to resign and admit their wrongs. The players might feel somewhat rejuvenated having a new coach to guide them, but we will still have a mediocre Poulsen, an idiotic and worthless Amauri, a Cannavaro slower than a turtle, a Grosso who's terrible, a Melo who just doesn't seem to want to play football anymore, a 33 year old Legro and an injury list longer than the Great Wall of China. What I'm trying to get at is that it seems that some Juve fans are so desperate right now(I'm one of them, but don't think Guus will make miracles happen) that just the thought of a change-no matter where from the team it is, it's going to make this team do a 180 and we are going to start winning left and right. Things don't happen so fast and a lot of people could be in for a real disappointment if Guus does indeed come and fail to make something out of this Juve. This team will need at least another 3-4 years IMO to reach the Juve we were all used to knowing. Just my 2 cents.

P.S: Moggi is once again right with pretty much everything he says in the first article Holymann posted from Football Italia.

and the rumor mills report russia giving hiddink permission

mediocre poulsen is injured for 2 months, we seem to have more players in the treatment room...when you are down, everything just seem to go wrong

As for the Sacchi appearance, yes he was in the stands with Conte. I don't think he is looking for a job, although I think I would prefer him to Hiddink. Ciro is probably going to go and I hope whoever comes can do better. I still fear for our long term strategy. I know all of you want Secco fired, and I am with you on that one, but we also need to look at our medical team. Part of the reason Ferrara has failed is that he has no players for any formation. With Camo, Gio and Sissoko out we can't play 4-2-3-1 properly. The 4-3-1-2 without Sissoko can't be played well either. 4-4-2 with Marchisio on the wing is hardly ideal. We need to keep our players injury free, at least 40 day injuries.

so will blanc has the guts to do it?

sack the ones that matter (secco and ciro(i'm sry))

ned lowe - I think that is exactly it. Juve need an entire restructuring.

it's not rocket science folks...our achilles heal is the inexperience of our management and it's been reflected in just about every step they've taken since they came on board.
whilst they have done well from the financial perspective(with the building of a new stadium and balanacing the books), in footballing/sporting terms it would'nt be harsh to tag them failures
from the dismissal of deschamps,to the appointments of ranieri and ferrara, the over-reliance on lippi's counsel and most of all transfer dealings; it's clear that these guys are greenhorns in the murky waters of italian football and it is this inexperience that has brought us to our knees
we r now at a point where it is clear that ciro was a VERY bad gamble, and worse still we're so far gone in the season that making amends is akin to a delicate surgical procedure that needs to be carried out with the utmost precision and expertise failing which the patient will surely die on the operating table
for all the clamour for hiddink there are no absolute guarantees that the 'project' will succeed. what if the dutchman does'nt wnat the job?n if he does,what are his chances with the squad of serial underperformers who currently populate our dear club?
the greatest damage from the calciopoli was not the player exodus or the financial write-offs, it was the management structure we lost and until we figure out how to re-build it, i fear the worst.
enough of the chummy-chummy, positive yoga bulls***interviews and press conferences we get from secco and blanc! it's time to call a board meeting where there will be some frank talk...failings should be bluntly stated and accepted and positive plans should be made for the future...
blanc needs to cede control of the non-financial tricks-of-the-trade to those with the know-how and focus on making the $$$ roll-in for us
the scale of work required is IMHO massive...player clear-outs, the appointment of a manager with an articulate strategy and the acquisition of players in line with that strategy...
it's not looking pretty

all this brazilian talk in nonsense, but WTF argument is that. I found this interesting stat, the below are the worst Juve coaches ever based on defeated and Ferrara is right there at the top, he's nice guy great ex-player but needs to go!!!

Coach/Matches/# Lost/ %lost
Giancarlo Corradini/2/2/100,00%
Julius Korostelev/2/1/50,00%
Federico Munerati/30/11/36,67%
Giovanni Ferrari/17/6/35,29%
Eraldo Monzeglio/37/12/32,43%
Sandro Puppo/62/20/32,26%
Ciro Ferrara/27/8/29,63%
William Chalmers /48/14/29,17%
Luigi Maifredi 49/14/28,57%
Umberto Caligaris /36/10/27,78%
Jozsef Viola 67/17/25,37%
Canepa Luís Antonio Carniglia 12/3/25,00%
Virginio Rosetta 139/33/23,74%
Renato Cesarini /76/18/23,68%
Carlo Parola 202/47/23,27%
Rino Marchesi 89/20/22,47%
Felice Placido Borel II /96/21/21,88%
Luis Monti/19/4/21,05%
George Aitken/67/14/20,90%
Ercole Rabitti/29/6/20,69%
Armando Picchi/29/6/20,69%
Paulo Lima Amaral/44/9/20,45%
Heriberto Herrera/215/42/19,53%
Teobaldo Depetrini/36/7/19,44%
Aldo Olivieri 68/13/19,12%
Ljubisa Brocic/53/10/18,87%
Jeno Karoly/70/13/18,57%
Claudio Ranieri/93/17/18,28%
Marcello Lippi 405/74/18,27%
Bigatto e Gola 29/5/17,24%
Dino Zoff /104/17/16,35%
Gyorgy Sarosi /62/10/16,13%
Giovanni Trapattoni /596/96/16,11%
Carlo Ancelotti /114/18/15,79%
Jesse Carver /76/11/14,47%
Carlo Carcano /161/23/14,29%
Cestmir Vycpalek /157/22/14,01%
Fabio Capello /105/13/12,38%
Luigi Bertolini /10/1/10,00%
Didier Claude Deschamps /43/2/4,65%

an* experience, secco too for too many transfer busts, but the fans should spare blanc, afterall the finance is healthy, leave the blame to the footballing people

Chiellini, Marchisio and to some extent Diego were the only two guys with balls on the pitch last night. I dont get the hate on Diego - football is a game of 11 players and Diego is the most marked player in Serie A right now.
Was Sacchi really there last night?
Damn I am so depressed - my whole day was ruined by this result.

i have defended ferrara, supported him, then switch stand a few more times, but this is the last straw, ferrara should go, secco too. at this rate, we may even fail to qualify for the CL next season...

ferrara is a classy guy, his past with juve means he was given the chance and support that raneri will never have, but seriously he is doing terribly, he has lost the confidence of the dressing room AND MORE IMPORTANTLY he don't seem to be able to fix the problems, we need to get a caretaker manager, preferably trapp or hiddink, (lippi's out right?), and employed a experience coach during the summer.

i'm sorry, ciro, maybe amauri and melo cost you job but you have lost the dressing room.

every italian team have nationality that they shouldn't buy from. we from Brazil as can anyone remember any brazilian that done slightly good in our team not to mention that anyone exile, milan vs Argentinian, and intermilan vs dutch van der myde and berkgam with schineder as an exception

Sam: "AC Milan do have some kind of philosophy, they know who and what to buy for each season the formation they are going to play each match etc."

Not very true. While Juve overspend on players,we dont have any money to spend. We sold Kaka for 70m euros and Gourcuff for 15,yet we only bought in Huntelaar. We wanted Dzeko and Cissokho,but didnt complete the deals due to lack of money.
Also we lacked identity at the start of the season. We had scored 4 goals in our first 7 games. Its lucky we stumbled upon the 4:3:3.
Juve need to get Hiddink. The guy knows how to handle such stuff. You can easily win the EL this year,and finish 2nd in the league this year,if he comes.

http://www.football-italia.net...

http://www.football-italia.net...

I can only laugh at the idea of Balotelli fans disliking Ronaldinho for his theatrics.

Moratti's the devil, so he probably did cause that.

hey alessio how about the ranocchia injury ? wonder if moratti some how caused that too along with the yellow cards ?? man you are becoming borderline delusional

holler from the better side of Milan, the red side that is, I hate to see Juve like this. Here's hoping Ciro finds some inspiration for new tactics, or Juve finds a more experienced coach.

It'll take balls NOT to fire ciro today/this week... A new coach with a defined tactical plan and a formation he sticks to is all we need now, if that includes fielding more than one technically gifted player...