Atalanta 1 – Juventus 3: Break Out The Egg Nog

By: roberto | December 21st, 2008

Well that was fun. Horrible pitch, some bad challenges, and a few sketchy incidences. All in all, I think our guys did a good job away in Bergamo and deserved the three points here. Atalanta looked quite threatening after Vieri’s goal but we managed to hold our back line nicely and regain some valuable possession. Ranieri got his Christmas present early as Juventus keep pace with Intermerda at the top of the table as the fat man rolls into town and we take a break for the holidays.

Everybody was Kung-Fu fighting! Anyone here think Amauri’s heading ability alone is worth his +€20 million price tag? I mean the man is unstoppable in the air. The more Lippi watches, the more he’ll realize what he stands to gain. Especially since Ranieri loves wing play and Marchionni and De Ceglie keep pumping in those accurate crosses. We can ride this strategy all year long… I feel like having some fish and chips all of a sudden. As alessio mentionned before, Marchionni is so great at making space for his crosses. Right foot or left, he’ll bend it in.

Legro got on the score sheet too with a nice header off of a corner. Great form by our centre-back throwing his ass into it ahahaha. Del Piero got one too off of a nice low searching cross by Marchionni who, after I reviewed the tape, was unfortunately in an offside position after Momo slid in a dirty through-ball. Thankfully Amauri’s header bailed us out though. Speaking of Momo, playing in Italy was a good move for him to grow his game. Look, he got nut-megged hard today for a great example of why it’s so important that you stay on your feet in Italy. He’ll need to keep this up or he’ll always have his doubters.

Ahhh what else? Here’s what I want for Christmas:

Improved defending on set-pieces.
More team discipline when we find ourselves stuck matching our opponent’s style of play.
A healthy squad to start the new year.

So now we wait until the eleventh of January until we play Siena to kick off the second half of the season. It goes Siena, Lazio, Fiorentina, Udinese. Boy how important was it that we went into this break on a high note? Terribly so I think. Last season our title hopes were lost as we began the first couple months of the new year flat-footed. Thirteen points in the first nine games in fact. This year we can’t make the same mistake obviously. Ranieri needs to keep these guys in check over the break, maybe have a team Chris Cringle or something but then it’s back to two-a-days dammit.

IERI… OGGI… DOMANI… SEMPRE JUVE!!!

Some Related Juventus Posts:

Category: Team News

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Sam

Yeha squad rotation wouldnt be the smartest as it would unsettle our forward line, sticking with amauri would be ideal at least for my liking. As wat Marco said about Trez is ohh soooo true!
Marco P.

Ravi, for a Champions League squad having at least 4 strikers in a 2-striker formation is an absolute must. That's what I'm talking about when I mention "squad depth": players who can come off the bench and be at least as good as the players coming off. There is just no way we can survive with 3 strikers, because in the event of an injury, we're stuck with fielding the same two players all the way till the end of the season.

Concerning the Amauri-Dunga issue, I actually read some bad news (vis-a-vis Italy fans) in Gazzetta today, namely that the Brazilian manager may be ready to call our striker up in the next international friendlies. Dunga still says however that he "will not be bullied into making Amauri a starter right away", and that the player'll have to fight for his place in the team.
http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/...

If you ask me, I don't think Amauri ever expected to be a starter in the Brazilian team. Just that Dunga opened his fu**ing eyes and recognize a growing talent. Now that he did, what I'm worried about is that a big door has just been opened for Amauri towards becoming an Auriverde. Now that's something which was never clearly defined before, hence all the talking concerning a possible Azzurri call-up.

Until now.

I really wish the Italian bureaucrats would just hurry with the paperwork.
LorenzoRosanero

Agreed - I read that a couple days ago - it's spot on.
roberto

The dude who wrote this nailed it right on I thought.
roberto

If Amauri is now on the verge of representing Italy then we shouldn’t blame the player himself. We shouldn’t hold Azzurri boss Marcello Lippi responsible either. There is one culprit and his name is Carlos Dunga. His job? To supposedly lead Brazil to world football domination. The former Fiorentina hard man’s refusal to give Amauri his first international call-up is a managerial faux pas of incompetent proportions. Not only would his inclusion undoubtedly be of some value to his Selecao side, but it would also rule out the possibility of the big Brazilian defecting to a rival country.

Amauri again showed on Sunday night just what a quality player he is with a brace against Milan. While Dunga could have used the small club excuse while he was banging in the goals for Palermo, the 28-year-old’s move to Juventus has given the striker a stage big enough to prove his worth. Yet Dunga has continued to snub the former Chievo man in favour of the likes of Inter’s troubled Adriano. Surely the November friendly against Portugal would have been an ideal opportunity to just have a look at the Old Lady’s newest star? Apparently not.

Brazil may have scored six past the sorry Portuguese on that night, but Dunga netted one colossal own goal. He left Amauri on the international transfer market and it could come back to haunt him – perhaps as soon as the February London test against Italy. With reports on Tuesday suggesting that Amauri is edging closer to the Italian paperwork he requires, it would be no real surprise if a player who is so desperate for international football swears allegiance to La Nazionale.

It may not ethically be right, but if the rules will allow Amauri to wear Italy blue then Lippi – whose job is to retain the World Cup – will do what Dunga has incredibly refrained from. And if that happens, on purely footballing terms at least, it will be Brazil’s loss and Italy’s gain.

-Channel4
LorenzoRosanero

Roberto - what was it? I keep getting a holding page saying channel4 is undergoing maintenance...
adam

Yea, he always says that he'll "chose the formation the night before the game", and it's the same formation and players as the week before, unless someone is injured.
alessio

Yeah, I think it's a bit ironic that he's got the nickname Tinkerman but he clearly likes to stick with the same formation and players.
roberto

Lorenzo... check this out

http://www.channel4.com/sport/...
Nnahoj

So do you guys really think that Ranieri will be able to keep Trezeguet and Amauri happy? Because he hasn't been rotating any positions on the squad so far. I doubt he would start all of a sudden when Trez comes back.
Nnahoj

Lorenzo, without checking out the link I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say Inter with the Quaresma signing. Now to check the link...

Damn, I was wrong.
LorenzoRosanero

Yo kids...

Guess who had the "buy" of the summer?

http://www.channel4.com/sport/...
adam

There is no doubt that Iaquinta is attached to this shirt, he's been a sub and hasen't complained once. Last season Palladino was starting over him and he said nothing. Once he started over Palladino, Palladino starts complaining only to have Ranieri shut him up by saying that Iaqunta has had less playing time then him.
adam

I'm not sure, all I can see is MAN 2 - EUR 1.

I swear if I were the defender I would of just pointed and laughed at him so hard.
alessio

Haha who was that against?

I feel similarly about Iaquinta......but I love him, and I think he loves Juventus. That's why he hasn't moved on since. But he deserves more playing time, no doubt.
adam

I just have to post this video, what a fucking clown,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
adam

Selling Iaquinta would be a very good idea, he's basically wasting his career by sticking with us. He was a starter at Udinese and now is 4th string striker with us. I really don't see why he hasn't requested a transfer. I think that he has given us all that he can and its time for him to move on to another club where he can get more than 5 min each game.
Joe

Liverpool 39-0 Juventus
calisi

This is true, it seems as if Ranieri prefers to save Giovinco for the forward position, so it is kind of like we have 5 already. Interesting side of things.
alessio

Because I like him. :)

No, seriously, if he is content with his position, I don't see why he shouldn't stay. He's been terribly useful as an off-the-bench goal-getter. 4 strikers are important. It's the same case as not having bought Amauri, imagine if Trez suffers a relapse and we sell Iaquinta in the winter mercato. That means Amauri-ADP pretty much have to play every game.
Ravi

Marco, do you really think we need 4 strikers? Throughout the season so far we've been operating with just three and there haven't been any problems so far. Personally, I think selling Trez, while in some ways would be advisable, would be too problematic to be feasible. Consider that a) He's pretty old and hasn't played in a while (i.e. no form) and b) as others have mentioned, by sticking with us through the Serie B years he's gained an even more legendary status among Juventinos. Given the lack of potential buyers and his status with the club it would be hard to sell.

Instead, I would argue we could more greatly profit from selling Iaquinta to Roma, Tottenham, or really any interested club. As a younger player he's bound to have more admirers and the fact that Amauri has been playing so consistently will really make it hard for Iaquinta to get any playing time. It's not that I don't like him, Iaquinta's had some great games with us but through his lack of playing time and that atrocious miss at the end of the game against Milan he hasn't done much to help the case for keeping him. It would be really great if we could sell him for another player, ideally Mordic from Tottenham (though I suspect there's not much in that rumor). Finally, we still have Seba to play as a striker and so in fact would keep 4 strikers if we were to offload Iaquinta.

Why shouldn't we sell Iaquinta?
roberto

And the winner is....... Cristian Molinaro! The fullback played for 3,694 minutes, more then anyone else this year. Go figure.
Marco P.

I don't think so alessio. The maximum duration is two years, after which an agreement has to be made on who retains the player.

With that said, I don't think anything's stopping the two clubs from making another co-ownership agreement (just like the previous one) right afterwards. I'm not 100% sure on this though.

By the way, I forgot to mention this but at any one time during the co-ownership agreement, one of the teams may offer to buy full ownership of the player. The other club has to accept however.
alessio

By the way, Marco has a great write-up over at mcalcio about Juve-Chelski. (as well as Roma-Arsenal and ManYoo-Inter) Pop over and give it a read.
http://www.mcalcio.com/uefa-ch...
alessio

Clubs can agree to continue the co-ownership situation, correct?
Marco P.

Nnahoj, bad idea. At the very least Juve need 4 strikers on the roster. We can't get stuck with lower than that, not if we want to have the squad depth of a UEFA Champions League team. And as far as I'm concerned, Trezeguet stayed with us all the way through Serie B. He's a hero in my eyes, and I know that goes the same for a lot of Juventini.

Regarding co-ownership, I think what adam said makes a lot of sense. Co-owning a player will indeed push the "buying" team to field him in the starting eleven (since they have money invested). In counterpart, the "selling" team ensures their player gets match experience and that his original (pre-agreed) market value does not drop if he plays badly or does not play at all during the "loan" stint.

Besides, according to the co-ownership modus operandi, the "selling" (i.e. the original) team is always favored in cases of sealed envelope bids.

Allow me to explain, and for the sake of simplicity let's take the De Ceglie Juventus/Siena example:

1) Co-ownership deals last for about 1 year. At the end of said year, the two teams must agree on which one buys the other half of the player.
2) If the two teams cannot agree, then the player (De Ceglie) remains with the team that acquired his playing rights (Siena) for one more year.
3) At the end of the second year, the two teams must again agree on who buys the other half from the other. 4) If they still cannot agree, they make "sealed envelope" bids to the FA. That is, in the case of De Ceglie, Juventus and Siena would bid a certain amount of money which represents "what the club are ready to pay for the player".
5) The team with the highest bid wins, and must pay that amount to the other team in order to keep the player.
6) Here's the best part: if the two amounts are equal, the original team gets to keep the player.

"Sealed envelope" bids is exactly what happened for Enzo Maresca and Fabrizio Miccoli. In both cases Moggi was able to <del>bribe FA representatives to find out what the rival club offered</del> bid just enough over the offers of Fiorentina to get the two players (who were then sold for a higher amount to Sevilla and Palermo) back to Juve for really cheap. Fiorentina got shafted, because they had offered peanuts for Maresca (€500 -that's five hundred, not five hundred thousand!- compared to Juve's €7,000) and zero for Miccoli (obviously, they had hoped Juve would offer more, but instead Moggi got away with buying the player for a mere €2.4m). In other words, Miccoli and Maresca returned to us for the misery of €2,407,000 combined.

In contrast, the other half of Chiellini (who was also in co-ownership loan to La Viola) was bought back by Juve for the pre-established amount, namely €800k. Still pretty cheap for someone who would turn into one of the world's top center-backs, don't you think? ;)
alessio

I think that's certainly true for some mid-table deals, like Palladino. On the other hand, you have Criscito who is a Starting XI-constant for Genoa, and he's only been on loan the last year or so. Relegation teams will play whoever they've got, regardless of team ownership.
adam

Alessio, I think teams opt for co-own rather than a loan because in a co-own the team will more likely want to play him. The better that player becomes the higher his value becomes and the more money that club makes. In a loan situation, why would a mid table team raise a player and then give him back to a higher team. Only low relegation teams will play them but only if the player is that good to begin with.
alessio

He plays a kind of hybrid left-wing, left-back, center-back goofy position. Sometimes I've seen Gasperini push him more into the midfield area, sometimes still in the backline.

Co-ownership of a player is when you sell a team 1/2 the players registration rights. The contract can have a number of details, ie a fixed price for the 2nd amount, and lists where the player will spend his season(s). This can be changed, if say Palladino wasn't playing enough at Genoa, Juve and Genoa could both agree to send him on loan to another place. To be perfectly honest I have no idea what the point is, maybe to balance books. It seems like you're betting against your player succeeding. Ie- We sold Paolo De Ceglie on co-ownership to Siena, and after a year had to pay a bit more to bring him back. I have no idea why we didn't loan him.

The Inzaghi-Trez situations are very different though. For Trez's amazing record and that he stayed in Serie B, I want him to stay, even if that means taking Amauri's place.
calisi

Is it possible when Criscito comes back from loan he will play LB? He is the LB in a 3-man defensive line for Genoa (and as I read Gazzetta right now, they have him in the midfield for the match after the break where PDC has been playing) and I was wondering if this would allow for PDC to stay on the left wing, Criscito at LB, and Giovinco up front on the left side (all in the future of course).

But regardless, could somebody explain how this co-ownership of a player works?
calisi

Manchester City would probably take you up on the offer to avoid relegation and they would overpay on such a deal haha
Nnahoj

How about this for a solution to the Trez - Amauri (possible) problem: sell Trezeguet!

Don't get me wrong, I'm as big a fan of Trezegol as you all are, but I think if we have Amauri who is in tremendous form at the moment (and who seems like only improving) then the need for Trezeguet decreases. Considering that Trez is unlikely to accept playing second fiddle, that could be an ideal solution for all parties. We could use the money from his sale to sign another younger forward, who might accept riding some pine, as well as strengthen other areas of the team.

I mean, that is exactly what happened to Inzaghi when we signed Trezeguet. Inzaghi wanted to be first choice all the time but that was not guaranteed given Trezeguet's form, so Inzaghi decided he needed a move, and we made a good chunk of cash from Inzaghi's sale.
calisi

Ok, cool. Anyone see that Everton tied Chelsea yesterday? Terry was sent off after 35min for a straight red I believe.
alessio

Yeah. I'm not sure yet. Depends also when my spring break is, I was thinking of hopping down to Morocco. I'll send you an email.
calisi

Hey alessio, do you think you'd hit up the Juve Torino match the Sunday before the CL match? I'm thinking I might fly into Milan, leaving the US Friday March 6th, getting in the 7th (a Saturday) and am pretty sure on the 8th we play Torino. I don't know how long you're planning on staying in Italy since I assume you are studying in Madrid, etc.
alessio

That's exactly the problem, Marco. You can't really send Trez on in the 65th minute and expect him to pop up immediately with a winner. As you said, he goes disappearing for a significant amount of time, during which a lot of Juventini call for him to be subbed out.

Amauri-Trez would be an interested combination, though of course ADP is in great form. We do have the Coppa and CL, so I hope Ranieri does rotate in all areas of the pitch. We do need consistency, but our starters can't be playing day-in day-out.
Sam

Yeha squad rotation wouldnt be the smartest as it would unsettle our forward line, sticking with amauri would be ideal at least for my liking. As wat Marco said about Trez is ohh soooo true!
calisi

Oh I totally agree that Buffon should start as well, don't get me wrong I didn't mean keep in Manniger over him. Just saying, it all goes with the whole "changing chemistry" discussion by bringing in people off injuries, etc. Except with everyone but the keeper, you can kind of bring in at 60, 70 min to get them back to feeling the pace of the game, working with players. Everything sounds good to me, as for Trez, I could see him subbing on with the form Del Piero and Amauri are in right now, and rhythm. And if either ever needed a rest, you have another fine starter to fill in. The only thing I'll say is that weren't Trez and Amauri playing in preseason together alot of the time?
Marco P.

*deat = death
Marco P.

P.S. Perhaps a more accurate descriptor than "playing like shit" would be "not touching the ball at all for 89 minutes". God knows Juventus have had games like that, when Trezegol was a ghost for the entire game and then slammed in the GWG at the deat. A certain derby against Torino comes to mind...