Abandon Ship- This Boat is Sinking

By: agiamba | November 29th, 2009

titanic-sinking-7790481

This season is going down. Fast. Full review after the jump.

The ironic thing about this game is, more or less what Ferrara said- unlike the Bordeaux disaster, we didn’t play all that terribly, yet still lost 2-0. That doesn’t change the fact that today was still, an utter disappointment. Losing 2-0 twice in a week is not something we’re accustomed to, yet I today make an appeal of patience to all the Juventini. It’s not easy to be a sports fan and be patient. Many coaches are prematurely sacked, though sometimes, change is long overdue. (Buffalo Bills) Today was a soul-crushing loss that put us in 3rd and 8 points behind Inter, but I argue to give Ferrara time with the team.

We really didn’t play that badly, though, except for a few key players. Amauri needs to be benched, I don’t care if Chimenti is starting up top, I am sick of seeing him whine at midfielders for the ball, and miss every goddamn chance he gets, after which there is more whining and shaking of his hair. Give Immobile a chance up top, I don’t care who but as a friend on Facebook said, I am now ABA, anyone-but-Amauri. I’m annoyed with him, but the foul on him in the box was a DEFINITE penalty that could have changed the balance of the game.

I can, however, sort of see why he gets a start, given all our other forwards are out. The same cannot be said for Molinaro. Why on earth is Ferrara giving him chances? I think it was pretty clear earlier in the season that Ferrara told Molinaro he was 3rd-choice, and time and time again, he’s proved why he is. Why the hell didn’t Grosso or De Ceglie start in his position?

And lastly, while I’m complaining about squad selections, Cannavaro was utter garbage today. Too slow, he was caught out of position several times and generally roasted by Cagliari’s pacey attack. What would everyone be saying if that was Legrottaglie? Probably that he’s rubbish, not up to Juve quality, and “fuck Legrottaglie” over and over. Instead, with Cannavaro, we figure he just had an off game. I’m not saying Cannavaro is a terrible player, one game doesn’t mean anything, but it’s time to stop having the double standards we do, because one player has a glorious past and the other…not so much.

Did Ferrara get it right today? Not entirely, but there’s not that often when a coach will nail the starting XI every game. Did we deserve to win? No. But, there are three things we knew before the season, and they are worth keeping in mind in these crappy times.

#1- It takes a while to master a formation. Ferrara said he wanted to play like Barca, which was probably a Zenga-style impossible promise, but Barca has been playing like that for decades. We have been playing whatever formation we are for 2-3 months, at best. It doesn’t help when your midfield and strikeforce are decimated by injuries. Figure at least a season to develop a strong new formation identity.
#2- The Moggi Rule: Never sign more than 2 new players for your starting XI. This largely applies to elite teams that are looking to refresh, more than restart, and it goes along with point #1 that it is tough to integrate these players into a new team. We have 5 new transfers who are frequently starting. For players like Cannavaro, Grosso, and Melo, they should be able to modify their game fairly quickly, 2-3 months. For foreign transfers, like Diego and Caceres, who are dealing with issues like a new league, a new language, etc, 4-5 months at the minimum.
#3- We all knew that going with a new coach would be bumpy. Personally, I wanted Gasparini at our helm, but I am satisfied with giving Ferrara a chance. It is not going to be easy, but he has already shown plenty of promise- willingness to change formation, willingness to try new things, commitment to squad rotation, willingness to own up to mistakes. These are 4 things Ranieri didn’t have. The tactics, and ability to read a game will come with time. With a new, inexperienced coach, figure at least a season. I’m with Ferrara till May, unless he puts us bottom half of the table.

Like I said, we knew these 3 things this summer, and I think all of you would have agreed. Our positive starts against Roma, Lazio, Chievo, etc, were an aberration that many of us thought were real. Now, it seems it was just a product of the enthusiasm in the squad. This fooled us, though, into thinking it would be an easy ride this season. Given Inter’s position, their squad depth, and the experience of the MoaningHoe, we were always underdogs, even if we believed at the start of the season we were equal.

I understand everyone’s disappointment, but I think the above points are very much valid and we need to have patience.

P.s.- We need to sign Caceres. I really like this kid. Maybe in exchange we can offer Amauri?

P.p.s- This post was sort of meant to cheer you up, but having re-read it, I don’t think it did the trick. Chin up, Juventini, there are better days ahead.

Some Related Juventus Posts:

Category: Team News

« We’re a Disgrace! We’re a Disgrace! We’re a F***ing Disgrace! | Home | It Begins »

Ralph

Alessio, you put a picture of the Titanic telling everyone its time to abandon ship and that does not indicate the level of your support deep down? A real fan does not do that. Standing by your team because they were sent down because of scandal is hardly comparable. You circled the wagons in protest of how the team was treated by those in power not because of their play. When a team plays bad and how the fans react is what says alot about the fan. Your post is an insult to any real Juve fan.
Ralph

Alessio, you put a picture of the Titanic telling everyone its time to abandon ship and that does not indicate the level of your support deep down? A real fan does not do that. Standing by your team because they were sent down because of scandal is hardly comparable. You circled the wagons in protest of how the team was treated by those in power not because of their play. When a team plays bad and how the fans react is what says alot about the fan. Your post is an insult to any real Juve fan.
Robee

To Vinod...

Int he diamond midfield, whether you like it or not, you need players like Camoranesi and Marchisio, who can be strong in defense, but just as strong in the offence by infiltrating or searching the flanks... Posting Tiago there makes our game slow and without any offensive value when the oppossing team cuts out Diego... So the 2 mids aside the CDM should be able to push forward. That's why Marchisio is the ideal player for this formation.
And putting Tiago in the centre makes it too weak... I don't know if you've seen it, but we are letting the opposition take a hundred shots from outside the area, and we can't blame our defence for this...
Vinod

Posting Tiago on the flanks
Whoever suggested playing Tiago on the flanks? Good God, that's tactical suicide! My suggestion was a diamond midfield, with Tiago as the defensive pivot. The two side-mids in a diamond don't really play on the flanks, they cover the area with the fullbacks' support.

And Jo, alessio: I don't see an alternative to fan passports, I mean, how else do you track these animals down and make sure they don't come to the stadiums? Patrolling stadiums involves considerably greater manpower and is more likely to cause riots and other incidents, because you'd actually need to kick people out from the game.
Armando

Gaetano, no i dont think we should ever sell Trez, i never meant that. I meant that while he's still good at the moment, how long is he gonna last before he's not gonna be starting quality anymore and eventually retire? Okay, now that i really think about yea he probably has at least 2-3 good seasons left in him, but that doesnt mean we should be looking for another striker. Especially because if Amauri doesnt step up and make a big impact really soon then i think the best thing would be to sell him and buy a more consistent striker. Personally i think Patrick Helmes or Edin Dzeko would be great ideas. Same case for Camoranesi, i think he should retire playing for Juve but sooner or later he's gonna need a replacement when he's no longer in top form, and an attacking midfielder, personally i think Marko Marin is great and would be an excellent replacement, would be a good idea to start thinking about.
Marco

My fellow Juventus fans -

It really has been a difficult season to endure so far. In addition to the disgraceful loses we have had to watch a very promising team underachieve. We have plenty of depth in the back - plenty of depth in the midfield and some might even say plenty of depth up front when healthy. On paper our team is setting itself up nicely - our youth -Gio, marchisio, ariaudo, De Ceglie, Immobile, etc - still have contracts with Palladinio, Cristico, and Ekdal will blossom before our very own eyes.

This season has been a complete and utter failure thus far - our transfers have not made any significant impact in our game, the formations have not seem to fit our style of play, our youths (beside marchisio) have not been shown faith from the board - and our coachs' lack of experience has been exposed to the world countless of times.

Not all is lost YET (i dare say) Right here and right now things can come to an end. A good showing of form, and a desire to win against Inter could transistion to a draw or a win against Munchen and we are back in the Scudetto and the round of 16. This is still obtainable. I was gutted when we lost against Bordeaux and i was even more gutted when we lost yesterday - but noone can argue that everything comes down to these next two games. Ciros head should feel like its under the guillotine - he better do some homework and figure out the best system to play - with the best players to play.

Forza Juventus.

Its now or never for 09/10 season.
Sofia

i agree. i do not agree with Amauri starting and i strongly believe that if our forwards can't get the job done, let the youth kids have a shot because they may surprise us. I also agree that Caceres needs to be signed he is quite promising. I think that right now it is really hard to believe that better days are ahead. The fans continue to be disappointed as our boys continue to fail to get a result. It is definitely a set back in our season, however, I hope our boys can pull it together and focus on the important top 2 finish.
Jorid

No Troll. I don't say it because he's not my coach. A coach getting paid 11 million? Are you fucking kidding me? It's nonsensical. It has happened to me in my FM 09 file where Platini bought Juventus and gave me 160 million to spend for fun and 15 million euros worth of a salary. Amounts like that should should stay in video games. No coach is special enough to get paid that much. Mourinho has won a lot, but look at guys like Lippi, Capello, Trap? They all have been coaching longer than Mourinhoe, have won much more with a greater variety of teams, have coached well on an international level, have helped develop some amazing talents throughout their careers. Sir Alex Ferguson who is one of the best coaches around gets paid around 4 million pounds. Capello who has a HUGE 4.8 million pounds salary by the FA gets paid less than Moaninghoe. Do I need to mention Capello's trophies throughout the years? What about Trap who has won trophies in Italy, Germany, Austria, Portugal? What about Trap's European record? Mourinho has a LONG way until he deserves anywhere NEAR 11 million. I guess if Moratti's dumb ass likes to uselessly spend money there isn't much I can do, but Massimo should have learned a bit from his father and how he was able to bring Helenio Herrera to the team and build a successful squad. Back then you actually won something in Europe for a change.
Johonna

Alessio, I agree - the fan passports are the wrong way to go.

I think, though, that the stands could be patrolled (like they are in the US and England) and people could be expelled. It would be mighty violent at first, though.
gaetano

true mancini did the same thing as mourinho and until he gets them something in the cl he isn;t worth 11 million.

armando I have to say i think trez can still be around for a bit and used the same way as pippo. He also deserves to retire within the club and I really donñ;t think he wants to be anywhere else. You can see this in his play. Amauri, tiago, molinaro, and zebina are different stories. these guys should be sold immediately before they get any older. I have to say Iaquinta for me is hit or miss but i still think he is worth another season. so yes i think we should look into the market--particularly for 1 extra striker.
alessio

Yes...we would be. 11mil for anyone...be it Lippi or SuperGigi is ridiculous.

And Jose can talk all he wants...but is 11mil a year worth the same old shit as Roberto Mancini? I guess you'd say so.
The Troll

yeah jorid of course you would say that about mourinho cuz hes not your coach, if ferrara was getting paid 11 mil would you be making that big of a deal out of it? I dont think so, you dont really understand how good this guy is until he becomes your coach, I didnt think too highly of him before he became our manager, in fact I rather disliked him when he was at chelsea and I was glad when man united finally won the title way back in 2007 so that he could quit his chirping, but now that he is our manager I just cant get enough of him, especially for what he said in an article. "Inter losing 2-0 to barcelona, then our loss is just as bad as juve against bordeaux or milan's home loss to zurich" grande jose!!
alessio

Whatever it is, I don't think it's fan passports. That just smacks of 1984 to me.
Johonna

I tell you, the FIGC has to crack down on this. I dont know if it is closed doors, or moving venues, or even having guards in the stands who can target the troublemakers and kick them out, but something needs to be done.
alessio

Side note, I don't know if you all read about it, but Sissoko was chanted against racially, Cagliari fans were making monkey noises at him. Disgraceful.
alessio

I think Trez has 3 seasons left in him, easy. He doesn't run a whole lot, he's not making tackles, and he's never on the ball long enough to get tackled hard.
Armando

Gaetano, what do you not agree with when it comes to Trezeguet? I think you probably misunderstood me. I'm not saying Trezeguet is not reliable, because he's proven over the years that he sure is, but just that he's like 32 now isnt he? He cant keep it up forever, and sooner or later we're gonna have to find a replacement.

And you agree about my transfer suggestions? Personally i think the Bundesliga has alot of amazing strikers who would do well at Juve, and who we could get for a decent price on top of that. So get rid of some of our players (Poulsen, Tiago, and Amauri if he doesnt step it up) and get some new, better ones.
Robee

[i]He needs consistency to express himself, just like any other deep playmaker. Maybe its an Interista mentality, but I don’t think D’Agostino is any better than Tiago, and he’ll only cost more, by virtue of being Italian. Besides, I don’t see him lighting up the scene thus far this season like he did last season. I also think he is defensively not as astute as Tiago, and will thus end up being a liability when played back.[/i]

Well, I'm having a few problems with this... Posting Tiago on the flanks means handing over the physical advantage, because truly he's been a pussy for years now... And he does not have the ability to really infiltrate and overpower opponents. That's where Marchisio is magic.

Next, I think D'Agostino as well als Marchisio are better defensively.
So you put him in the middle and he can set up some plays for us... But we truly need a strong defensive player because we have infiltrating once on the flanks... That's why Poulsen doesn't work for us, same reason. And that's the reason why we bought Melo. Our midfield will be too weak with Tiago there, as Melo can not play on the flanks, and actually, neither can Sissoko, though he's doing it very often the last few weeks...

I agree D'Agostino isn't as good as last season, but who would, had a very difficult summer mentaly. But it's only a name, it's that type of player that we need.

Playing with Tiago/Poulsen in the middle would really urge us to buy a briljant central defender.
Pablo

Neil, not that I want to start another topic here, but Lippi is not biased? What about Cassano?

I think, like many others here, that it will take time. We just have to be patient. Ferrara is not a good coach (yet), but he is all we have right now so we better support him for a while.
Neil

Alessio, I couldn't agree more with you about the double standards players are given. Once a player develops a reputation, that reputation is constantly reinforced through the media. Whenever a player departs from the standard script, everyone just ignores it.

There's something to be said about evaluating players without any bias, prejudice, or consideration of the past. It's something that Lippi is very good at. Yes, he does give veterans the benefit of the doubt. But when end result is in jeopardy Lippi has no favourite sons.
Papai

just saw the score now as i was out attending a friend's wedding

all i can say is... WTF!
gaetano

jorid no i was named after my sicilian grandfather. funny how so many siciliani support juventus. I grew up watching serie a with my dad (who is a palermo supporter) but i never had much love for palermo. although at times they are scary as our earlier encounter with them proves. Yeah alessio i have off mondays so i can drink on sundays.

Its just a side comment but its funny how some of inter supporters talk about football matches. Its like they think its a boxing match or an american football game. Ie
Cant wait to kick your ass this week. Ridiculous¡
My brazilian friend commented about the ad campaign for the world cup 2002 once. he mentioned how the brazilians were all smiling,happy, and peaceful whereas many of the american players looked like they were competitors for a wfc match. It still cracks me up¡
idze

http://goal.com/en/news/10/ita...
1987

Juventus need a coach with leadership, someone who command respect and don't have friendship with the veteran player Del Piero, Cannavaro etc. We need a coach who's willing to play the inform players instead of the player with the big name reputation. Although some Juve fans wants to give Ferrara a chance I want Juventus to go after Hiddink who is a proven winner. We're not playing great football, even when we win we struggle. Ciro need to get some experience with a smaller club before coaching Juventus.
Johonna

Not just goal.com, check out:
http://www.football-italia.net...
http://www.football-italia.net...
http://www.football-italia.net...

Wow. It is so nice that for once, Inter isn't Monday's whipping boy.
Art

For all of you juventini out there, don´t get your minds, filled with the impression that web pages like goal.com gives to you. Why yes we are not playing good, we are not playing terrible. Every team loses, even the incredible barca, and i must say i believe in Ciro, all he needs is more time, diego,melo and grosso also, and please you shoul really consider on buying caceres, selling amauri, and i know this is crazy, but benching del piero, it´s giovinco time
Jorid

I think that article is idiotic Al. He has a few good points, but the guy mentions that Juve need a Mourinho? No coach ever should get paid 11 mill to coach. If he does then he should suit up for the game and step on the field himself. Wenger? He would be great for bringing in some new talent, but how long has it been since "The Voyeur" won anything? Rafa? Never looked like a strong character coach to me. What Juve needs is better directors(although they have done a decent job with what they were handed after Calciopoli, they could have done MUCH better), an actual defense for now and later, not just another temporary cover like Canna, Grosso, Andrade, Boumsong etc(which is what some of us have been asking for 2,3+ years now) and a bit more time. Thats it.
HolyMann

Nnahoj.....cant agree more with what ur saying, and if history has taught us anything, is that Juve will be back, and when they do, its gonna last...
Godson Hernandez

@al, much as I admit we have problems, i don't advice you to go reading goal.com on this. They always manage to make things look worse than it actually is. We need to stick wiv Ferrara a bit more. Granted, that may lose us any chances of silverware in worst case scenario but i believe if he can get it right, we'd be on a roll to winning something this season.
al

romabaha might have points.

it is also what I understand from reading goal.com article (yeah, it is goal.com)

http://goal.com/en/news/1717/e...
romabaha

I have not watched Juve for a while but it is obvious they are underperforming.
However, I did read some comments from Buffon and Diego questioning Ferrara's tactics. It seems there is something fishy in the dressing room- I have no other explanation for dropping points left and right.
Vinod

Tiago doesn’t carry the “Juventus quality label”

I disagree, in fact, I think Tiago is an excellent player who has just never managed a decent run of games. He was crap under Ranieri, showed signs of life under Ferrara, but hasn't played consistently. You guys shot yourselves in the foot a little by selling off Cristiano Zanetti, but I believe Tiago is capable of playing that role. He needs consistency to express himself, just like any other deep playmaker. Maybe its an Interista mentality, but I don't think D'Agostino is any better than Tiago, and he'll only cost more, by virtue of being Italian. Besides, I don't see him lighting up the scene thus far this season like he did last season. I also think he is defensively not as astute as Tiago, and will thus end up being a liability when played back.

A diamond midfield with Tiago pulling the strings from deep, protected by an all-action player like Marchisio and an enforcer like Melo/Sissoko, with Diego/Giovinco spearheading the attack up front looks pretty scary to me - provided it stays that way for a while.
Ranjeet

Sell Amauri to Milan???No thanks.We had our chance to sign him. We prefer Dzeko,and he prefers us.
j

after reading the posts, i changed my mind, let ferrara stay until the end of the season, out of his inexperience, past with juve, good start, etc. the players too, amauri, tiago, etc, till the end of the season. IF we win (i'm being optimistic) our next 2 match, we still have hope, otherwise ferrara and the awful players are one more step towards the exit of the club.

forza la veechia signora, it ain't over till it's over
Sam

"Sell Amauri when he’s still worth something before he’s 30 years old, and get a good striker who doesnt try fancy shit, doesnt complain, and most of all can put the ball in the net on a consistent basis. There’s plenty available, personally i think Dzeko would be a great idea, sell Amauri to Milan so theyre happy and then have Dzeko all for ourselves. Helmes, Grafite, Kiessling, etc would be good ideas as well."

You love your bundesliga dont you Armando, but those players are not Juventus quality, and Grafite is too old i dont nned him or want him.
Godson Hernandez

I still think Amauri has gotta go. It's not that he's not a great player. It's just that he does not seem to fit the current team. Maybe he should go to Milan where Ronaldinho and Seedorf can feed him all the balls he wants. We need Trez back quickly. He's as sharp as a blade and does not pass up opportunities. He at least makes an attempt on each ball that comes his way.. Ferrara should stay on. Maybe the coach should grow with the team. It may take time (scary, true) but it's important we don't become Inter, Madrid or Chelsea. If Ferrara can get a perfect formation that clicks, especially in the midfield (which requires Diego and Melo finding their feet)and sticks with it, Juve will be unbeatable. We've got what it takes to be the best. We just need to find the best way to play.........and of course, avoid injuries.
Robee

"I also agree with you, Vinod, on the midfield. Melo, Sissoko, Camoranesi, Giovinco, Marchisio, Diego… all are class midfielders. Tiago and Poulsen have been pretty decent this season too. And with the except of Camoranesi, all have plenty of time in their career left, and once they click, they will be a force."

I agree, but it just won't happen in this system, Alessio. Poulsen is not at the top of his game in any of our formations, Tiago doesn't carry the "Juventus quality label", so just sell them while their value is up a bit .Then you have a mix between defensive players, fantasista and Marchisio. We need more players like Marchisio, and if possible even a greater passer of the ball...

If you can line up for instance D'Agostino and Marchisio around Melo/Sissoko in support of Diego, then we will be able to play dominant, keep possession AND take some pressure of our defence which will allow them to infiltrate more. Don't know if you have noticed, but our best passer of the ball is no one less then Caceres if you ask me...

It only lacks D'Agostino in midfield, if you think about it... Giovinco can move upfront around the striker in a free role like ADP. Camoranesi can sub in for Marchisio and I'd just keep Marrone with the team.

I don't know if I would sell Amauri, but if Dzeko becomes a possibilty, I wouldn't hesitate for a second. They should about have the same value... As would the sale of Poulsen and Tiago sponsor a D'Agostino move... We don't even have to spend a penny for those. Then buy Caceres and Ranocchia or Santacroche. Done deal...

I know the transfer window is still far away and in the winter something like this won't happen, but it's not Ferrara's fault, even though he could get more out of this team... If only he stopped benching Giovinco !
mohd

the problem is in Seria A there is a team how have to be an alpha male and ever body have to be his bitch we were this team before calciopoli

do you see how inter get ever suspicious desion in there favor now and the opposite never happen, if Millito tackle was a penalty, then definitely one of Amurai or Diego tackles should. But you see the refs never considered juve a big team any more
Thomas

I´m with you Alessio - Start anyone else but Amauri! I´m sick and tired of him missing sitters, and his attitude! And why the hell did Molinaro start instead of De Ceglie!? And Marchisio on the left instead of Giovinco?!
And a shitty performance by Cannavaro, maybe we should try starting Ariudo!
Lets get rid of Molinaro, Poulsen, Tiago and by a right winger, give Marrone a chance in midfield - and for God´s sake boys - start showing some fighting spirit when things aren´t going well!!!!
colaking

we should keep ferara until the end of the season,and hope he keeps us in a ucl spot and then replace him with spalletti or mancini